Editing Talk:Dark Hide

{{LA|Vtext=I propose we change the name of [[Unnamed Heartless|this page]] to '''Hunter of the Dark'''. "Hunter of the Dark" comes from the name of the music played while you fight this Heartless. I know, it's just the music, and nothing ''technically'' says that this is its given name, but it's better than what we have. ''Anything'' is better than "unnamed Heartless". It's time to give this bro a name, IMO.

Oh, and removed the redirect to [[KHWiki talk:Unnamed Enemies|this page]]. Was that bad?}}
:Last time that was suggested for Sunset Horizons, people blew a gasket. People are still fuming over Lingering Will, too, and that one has a much stronger, more direct case.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:04, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
::No one's blowing a gasket now. And ''it'' is a better name than "Unnamed Heartless", you have to admit. --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 00:40, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
:::I was actually going to move and change the page to "Hunter of the Dark" as a temporary name until announced... which I doubt won't be in a while. {{User:Erry/Sig}} 02:24, 14 June 2011 (EDT)

Personally, I'm against it. The name of a track is really not a reliable source, as we've seen, but my real reason is that we should probably be trying to do better on keeping speculation to a minimum. I'm not dead set against it, but that's my stance. (Also, if it weren't for Lord of the Sky, I'd say "Hunter of the Dark" doesn't sound like a Heartless name at all.)  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 13:10, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
:Especially since "Ruler of the Sky" is the dub for "Sky Ruler".{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:07, 19 June 2011 (EDT)
I think we're jumping the gun here if we go straight to naming it "Hunter of the Dark". I thought of it too, but I'll decide against it, because if someone can find a reliable enough hack from BBSFM or a future journal entry, that might resolve everything. <sup>'''[[User:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#4997D0">Tambours</font>]]'''</sup><sub>'''[[User talk:Troisnyxetienne|<font color="#191970">Néant</font>]]'''</sub> '''[[User:Troisnyxetienne/Mensa|<font color="silver">Ensemble !</font>]]''' 06:20, 20 June 2011 (EDT)

...Exept he has no journal entry, and, at least the model files, dont have a proper name.--'''[[User:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=black><big>Dark-En</big>]][[User talk:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=gray><big>igmaXIII</big>]]</font></font> 11:42, 22 June 2011 (EDT)
{{LA|Vtext=Just out of curiosity, where did we find the Bit Sniper's name?

Also, does the guidebook/Ultimania for BBSFM, if there is one, shed light on this Heartless? I'd assume not, but I don't know if we've checked yet.}}
:Bit Sniper is listed in the Ultimania and Bradygames guides.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 02:01, 25 June 2011 (EDT)

== <s>Red</s> YELLOW eyes ==

{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=14:12, 3 July 2011 (EDT)|videogame=I'm probably not the first one to notice this, but aren't its eyes yellow? Sure you'd doubt it at first but if you look reeeaal close like, you'd see that beneath the red glow, its eyes are yellow. More clearly seen in [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/File:Hunter_of_the_DarkBBSFM.png our Wikia counterpart's image].}}
{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=21:08, 7 July 2011 (EDT)|confusion=No? No one wishes to back me up on this? Crap :(}}
{{LapisScarab|time=22:01, 7 July 2011 (EDT)|text=Didn't see this. It's eyes are clearly yellow (like virtually every other Heartless in existence) with a red glow. I'll fix up the description in a bit.}}

== Heartless ==

{{Xabryn|text=Do we have any confirmation that this thing is a Heartless?}}

{{LapisScarab|time=18:26, 8 July 2011 (EDT)|text=If there's an official guide for BBSFM, it's probably listed there. But I'd like to point out that this thing has all the hallmarks of Pureblood we've seen on every single one of them in the series. The glowing yellow eyes, the purple/black and blue body, the jagged mouth; it also has the same skin textures as the Dark Thorn and Darkball Heartless. EDIT: Also, Aqua outright says that it isn't an Unversed, and Nobodies don't exist yet.}}

{{Xabryn|text= for crying out loud stop with the "nobodies didn't existed before Xemnas" we have nothing that prove it, now going back to the actual suject, yes he look like one but so does Anti-Saix and the wiki says it is a nobody so the appearence is nothing if we don't have a confirmation, plus he has something that no other heartless has, a red glow on his yellow eyes}}
{{LapisScarab|time=20:20, 8 July 2011 (EDT)|text=...Yes we do. Secret [[Ansem Report]] Number 7, Ansem refers to the Nobodies as "new" threats, well after Xehanort usurped him. And even allowing that Nobodies could exist at this time period, the unnamed Heartless does not resemble or behave in any way like a Nobody, it is not an Unversed, and thus must be a Heartless. 

I'm with you on Anti-Saix and Anti-Riku, I have no idea what logic is being used for them. Both are non-canonical beings that bear a stronger resemblance to Heartless than what they're currently classified as.

EDIT: About the eye. Its eyes are very clearly the standard Heartless yellow. Simply having a red glow does not make it a different creature. Its purely an aesthetic difference. Heartless are not uniform, they have a wide diversity of appearances with just a few common similarities.}}

It was in the middle of the Realm of Darkness, so I'd assume it would be a Heartless.  {{The Inexistentsig}} 20:21, 8 July 2011 (EDT)

:Also, if it was a Nobody of some sort, it wouldn't be using elemental attacks, and it would convulse and deform itself throughout the battle.  {{The Inexistentsig}} 20:25, 8 July 2011 (EDT)

{{Xabryn|text=I'm not saying that it is a nobody I just used Anti-Saïx as an example, we have no idea of all the things that exist in the realm of darkness so maybe it is a new thing never seen before, and one more time I'm not saying that is a new thing just mentioning that it may be something other than a heartless and since we don't have anything saying that it is a heartless we shouldn't just jump into conclusions and say that it is. 
@Lapis: Yes he calls it a new '''THREAT''', that doesn't necessarily means they didn't existed before, it may mean that they weren't a threat before besides, Secret Ansem Report 1 also says:
"''When a Heartless is born, the body and soul left behind are reborn into this world as a different being.''" and as heartless already existed in BBS it is most likely that nobodies existed too.}}
{{LapisScarab|time=22:24, 8 July 2011 (EDT)|text=Alright, let me get this straight.
#You are not saying it is a Nobody. Alright, so it isn't a Nobody.
#You are not saying it is a new thing. Alright, so it isn't a new type of enemy.
#Aqua identifies that it is not an Unversed. Alright, so it isn't an Unversed.
#It looks and behaves like pretty much every other known Pureblood Heartless, with its color scheme, eyes, mouth, and the weird after-images.

Going by all of that, either it is a Heartless, or it doesn't actually exist.

Side note, Secret Ansem Report #1 does not say that. #7 does. Ansem ''wonders'' about what happens to the body and soul after a Heartless is born in the earlier reports, but it is not until report #7 that he mentions actually seeing them. They are his "new discovery" and he names them, and this all happens ''after'' Xehanort banished him, not before.}}

{{Xabryn|text=Okay fine, but I still think that it is wrong to jump into conclusion without any proof.
P.S.:Sorry about the 1 I must have typed it by mistake, yes he only <big>'''discover'''</big> them after being banished to the RoD and again, I repeat, that doesn't necessarily means that they didn't existed.
P.S.S:The nobodies named themselves}}
{{LapisScarab|time=23:13, 8 July 2011 (EDT)|text=Without any proof. Yes. There's absolutely no proof whatsoever. Except for the proof I just gave you. Really, you did most of the work for me. If it's not a Nobody, Unversed, or new type of enemy like you said, it must be a Heartless. I don't follow what part of that doesn't qualify as proof. 

Fine, let's just throw out the concept of when Nobodies came to be. This boss is still not a Nobody. Nobodies, unlike Heartless, ''are'' largely uniform, with the exception of human-shaped Nobodies. They ''all'' have at least some silver on them, bear the Nobody emblem, and lack eyes (need I remind you, this boss' eyes are prominently featured). They ''all'' twist and contort themselves <!--excluding the World of Nothingness and the Gummi Heartless, which have their own standard design-->and are summoned with those thorns. There is no possibility of it being a Nobody, nor an Unversed.

I don't follow. Organization XIII named themselves, I suppose, but Ansem named the species in his reports.}}
{{DTN|time=00:18, 9 July 2011 (EDT)|text=I'd like to point out that, going by the logic I've seen used to so far, that the realm itself is defining it as a Heartless. Every time we've seen the Realm of Darkness, we see either darkness or Pureblood Heartless. It's said somewhere, I think in ''Kingdom Hearts II'', that hanging out in the Realm of Darkness causes normal beings to have memory loss or suffer in some way (case in point: [[Ansem the Wise]]. I think.). The being has no emblem of any kind to define it as a new enemy. There is no implication of any beings other than Heartless naturally residing in the Realm of Darkness.

Seriously, to say it's not a Heartless simply doesn't make any sense. While it is never stated by the game "OH THIS ENEMY IS A HEARTLESS, IN CASE YOU WERE WONDERING," the game is ''directly implying'' that it is a Heartless. Now, is that confirmation? Nope. However, Nomura and his team are clearly ''trying'' to get us to assume that this thing is a Heartless. To not make such a, well, ''obviously true'' conclusion would simply result in off-the-wall alternatives.}}
:It has Heartless eyes and the Heartless mouth. Nobodies do not have eyes, and it does not have the Nobody mouth. Anti-Saix is only considered a Nobody because he IS SAIX, just a fighting game-style recolor.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:27, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

{{Xabryn|text=Aside from Aqua you never get to control a character in the RoD and the plac is almost completly unknown for us we cannot know for sure if there is any type of dark creature aside from heartless, but I'll just drop the subject since we've got nothing confirming it is another kind of creature, but the truth is Nomura can decide to make a new creature there any time he wants since the RoD is pretty much an uncharted territory.
@Lapis:Read Secret Ansem's Report 7 again cuz Ansem says that the Nobodies named themselves:
''This new threat...'''they have given themselves''' a fitting name, I suppose. 
These non-beings: "Nobodies." ''}}
{{DTN|time=13:26, 9 July 2011 (EDT)|text=...Ummm, no. The Realm of Darkness is not uncharted territory. In ''Kingdom Hearts'' we use it as a ''battlefield'' for the final battle, see it in the final high-rendered cutscenes, and also behind the doors to Kingdom Hearts. Behind that door were Heartless. In ''Kingdom Hearts II'' Sora and company ends up in total darkness in the Realm of Darkness. Again we see one of its primary locations in the Dark Margin, which has been seen ''several times'' in ''several scenes'' in ''several games''. Finally, we get to see it in ''Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep'' as total darkness in the final storyline, and then again as a true area in Aqua's secret storyline. There is no reason to call an entire ''Realm'' "uncharted territory;" if it was, we wouldn't have written [[Realm of Darkness|a long, detailed article about it]].

Finally I'll being up the fact that the being has Heartless eyes, Heartless mouth, lives in the Heartless-populated Realm of Darkness, uses darkness in battle, has the coloration of a Heartless. It is clearly not an Unversed or "complete being," and we can effective rule out any chance of it being a Nobody simply due to the fact that a Nobody would not have ''all of the characteristics of a Heartless''. Hell, you could even say this thing's chains are definitive of it being a Heartless. Notice that when we see chains on an enemy, they are always on a Heartless. [[Large Body]], [[Dark Thorn]], etc.}}

{{Xabryn|text=Look just drop it okay, yes it it probably a heartless and blah blah blah. But the RoD is uncharted territory no one aside from Aqua satyed too long in there to look at the whole realm and we only see aqua wandering aroud there for a short while and yes all the she finds is darkness and heartless, but she also find [[Unnamed Heartless|something that is probably a heartless but we don't know for sure]] oh and the dark thing that summon Heartless, but anyway the RoD has many secrets that we don't know yet so yes it is uncharted territory
P.S.:The battle field for the Final Battle in KH is not in the realm of darkness it is in a place that has a door that goes to a place in the RoD where the [[Kingdom Hearts|heart of all worlds is]]}}
{{LapisScarab|time=15:54, 9 July 2011 (EDT)|text=What "dark thing that summon Heartless" are you talking about? Nothing summoned this Heartless, we see it stalking Aqua. 

I get why you're bringing this up, Xabryn. It's because our policy has been to have 100% confirmation, but this is taking it far too literal. We need to rethink/reword our policy, methinks. }}

{{Xabryn|text=There is some darkness on the ground from where Shadows and Neoshadows pop out I'm not talking about this Heartless thing}}

It's like an extension of the corridors of Darkness, used for travel by all Heartless (as that is how they ALL appear, and, if you move too far away, how they dissappear).  {{The Inexistentsig}} 17:07, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

Xabryn.

The being is made of darkness. That much is inarguable.

Heartless are ''defined'' as "the beings that are made from darkness." In practice, this means that they are either the reflection of or created form the darkness within people's hearts. But by definition, any being made of darkness is a Heartless. I do appreciate you wanting us to stick to policy, and here's the solid evidence we have so that this is not speculation.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:25, 9 July 2011 (EDT)
:I'm sorry to intrude, but didn't Xabryn say to drop the subject twice? {{User:CaelumLucisCaliga/Sig}} 23:59, 9 July 2011 (EDT)
::Both times he's said that he's tacked on some new argument that begs for a response. Though I will give you credit again, Xabryn; you're very good about bringing this up and keeping the discussion to the talk page rather than changing things immediately.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}03:05, 10 July 2011 (EDT)
I know, I just can't help it, when I see an argument like the one Kryten just used I just feel an urge to argument it back<!--, so here it goes, that's not necessarily true Kryten, or else technically Vanitas should be considered a Heartless, damn it I did it again -->.--[[User:Xabryn|Xabryn]] 08:43, 10 July 2011 (EDT)
:It actually ''is'' necessarily true, Xabryn. Not only do we have no explicit word what Vanitas is (so it's possible Nomura could intend him to be a Heartless, he certainly has an emblem), but he has a HEART of pure darkness, so he could also be a normal being -- just like the Princesses of Heart are humans, not light-monsters.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 23:47, 11 July 2011 (EDT)

==UH's Render==
Uh, guys! I found [[:File:UnnamedHeartlessRender.png|this]] uploaded by Soxra in The Keyhole Wiki. You think this can be a more suitable image?<font face=Times New Roman color=lightblue>—</font>[[User:Roxas-X-Namine|<font face=Times New Roman color=lightblue>Wing</font>]][[User talk:Roxas-X-Namine|<font face=Times New Roman color=lightblue>blade</font>]]
:You can't just up and take their image, you need to get the original uploader's permission, and I don't think that it's worth the trouble of asking him/her for it, seeing as how ours is perfectly functional. {{User:Chitalian8/Sig}} 09:25, 26 July 2011 (EDT)
::Actually, although we can't use that image, I certainly would appreciate a full-body image like that. The one we have is good, but it only really illustrates the face.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 09:36, 26 July 2011 (EDT)
The original image was found by [[User:Dark-EnigmaXIII|Dark-EnigmaXIII]], it was "touch up" by Soxra to remove the edge. So you have to ask him if you want to use it, though I doubt he would say yes... {{User:UnknownChaser/Sig}} 13:38, 26 July 2011 (EDT)
:Actually Chaser, DE rendered it... he didn't "find" it... :P {{User:Soxra/Sig|t=5:59pm, July 26, 2011 (UTC)}}
::Again, I don't want us to use their image. It's their image. I want us to try to create our own UH image that shows the full body.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 14:54, 26 July 2011 (EDT)

Guys, I was expecting someone to kindly ask for one, but since none of you thought of the simplest solution, I decided to give you guys one just to be nice, and because Shard approach to the image bussines really touched me. Collaboration between wikis, that's what I want. I wouldnt have denied a render. Just wanted to say that, because it looks like if you didnt want to ask me for it.--'''[[User:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=black><big>Dark-En</big>]][[User talk:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=gray><big>igmaXIII</big>]]</font></font> 21:17, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
:The point wasn't to offend you by not asking for the render, we want to use our own image since we're different Wikis. The offer is much appreciated, though. {{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}21:24, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
::The image I provided now is not on wikia anymore. I deleted it in order to respect you guys desire. But have you realized I could have done another render, with a different pose, anytime I wished? I just find it stupid that you never thought of the simplest solution...--'''[[User:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=black><big>Dark-En</big>]][[User talk:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=gray><big>igmaXIII</big>]]</font></font> 21:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
::I agree with DE... there is really no shame in asking. Yes, the reason was to differentiate the Wikis, but if we are willing to provide you with images that we don't use, where's the harm, right? I'm glad to have seen Shard come forward and ask us about inter-Wiki events, and I do wish that others wouldn't be afraid to as well. {{User:Soxra/Sig|t=9:36pm, September 17, 2011 (UTC)}}
:::Thank you guys, this one looks really awesome. --[[User:ShardofTruth|ShardofTruth]] 21:49, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
::::No problem. Let this be a token for our new image relantionship ^^--'''[[User:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=black><big>Dark-En</big>]][[User talk:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=gray><big>igmaXIII</big>]]</font></font> 00:51, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
==Official Render==
Courtesy of KH13.com - http://kh13.com/forum/gallery/image/40037-by5261iciaiwcg/ - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 04:08, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
::Dammit, they couldn't have included its name in the scan??  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 06:20, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 {{LA|Vtext=I propose we change the name of [[Unnamed Heartless|this page]] to '''Hunter of the Dark'''. "Hunter of the Dark" comes from the name of the music played while you fight this Heartless. I know, it's just the music, and nothing ''technically'' says that this is its given name, but it's better than what we have. ''Anything'' is better than "unnamed Heartless". It's time to give this bro a name, IMO.
-Oh, and removed the redirect to [[KHWiki talk:Unnamed enemies|this page]]. Was that bad?}}
+Oh, and removed the redirect to [[KHWiki talk:Unnamed Enemies|this page]]. Was that bad?}}
 :Last time that was suggested for Sunset Horizons, people blew a gasket. People are still fuming over Lingering Will, too, and that one has a much stronger, more direct case.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 01:04, 13 June 2011 (EDT)
 ::No one's blowing a gasket now. And ''it'' is a better name than "Unnamed Heartless", you have to admit. --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 00:40, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
@@ Line 109: / Line 109: @@
 ==Official Render==
 Courtesy of KH13.com - http://kh13.com/forum/gallery/image/40037-by5261iciaiwcg/ - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 04:08, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
-::Dammit, they couldn't have included its name in the scan??
+::Dammit, they couldn't have included its name in the scan??  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 06:20, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
-::EDIT: WAIT. IT'S CALLED "DARK HIDE"? (ダークハイド)  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 06:22, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
-::Now we have its official name! Let's move it? {{User:Pea14733/Sig}} 06:38, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
-:::I'm all for it!  - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 07:35, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
-::::Yup. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 15:05, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
-Shouldn't we wait for the official English release? I mean, it's only two months from now, and the final name could be changed before then for the English release. {{KeybladeSpyMaster/Sig}} 15:37, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
-:That really depends if we get a better official English guide this time around or not. If it's as craptastic as Prima's 1.5 ReMIX guide chances are we won't get the English name at all so I vote to move everything to the Japanese name and add a translation template. {{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 15:56, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
-{{RikutheBloody|time=16:09, 2 October 2014 (UTC)|Haloween=Should we remove the move template then?}}
-I think it should be moved to "Dark Hide" now. It's a much more stable name than "Unnamed Heartless" and if the English release gives us a name, we can always move the page again. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 16:33, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
-:I agree. Anything is better than "Unnamed Heartless". {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 16:54, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
-::If we're lucky, there will be a place for a name in the game itself, so we won't have to rely on a crappy English guide. But yes, let's move and add a translation template.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 17:51, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
-Maybe in 2.5, yes. {{User:Master Riku the Bloody/Sig1}} 17:56, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
-:::Hm, why did we go for Dark Hide instead of Darkhide when the name is obviously a reference to (or even a pun of) Darkside? --{{User:ShardofTruth/Sig}} 23:25, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
-::::"Darkhide" is better, I think. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 23:31, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
-:::::I wouldn't consider the name a pun of "Darkside." "Dark Hide" refers to the darkness and its camouflage abilities; it "hides" in the "dark"ness. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 03:12, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
-::::::For what it's worth, the Darkside's name refers to it being the darker side of a person, so the name is being conjoined there too.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 19:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC)