Editing Talk:Command Meld

from wikiwiki:
Commands are selected and fused in a synthesis system that creates new commands, known as "Command Charge". Command Charge can be performed in the menu at any time.

*During Command Charge, if a synthesis item is used, a special ability can be added.
*Without using synthesis crystals, the ability is chosen at random from the table, but it has a low probability of appearing.
*When a synthesis item is used, the added ability is constant.
*If you don't like the ability, use another crystal or different materials.
*For synthesis, you might have to level the base commands to obtain certain results.
**Ex: Fire (LV2)+Fire (LV2)=Fira (LV1)
**Ex: Thunder Blitz (Master)+Fire Dash (Master)=Dark Haze
***If the materials are not mastered, you can't synthesize Dark Haze.
*Very rarely, the command generated will be a different, rare command.
*The commands generated this way do not show up in the Moogle Shop.
**Ex: Fire Strike (LV3)+Aerora (LV3)+Power Crystal=Aerial Slam (LV1)=>Last Arcanum (LV1)
**Ex: Aero (LV2)+Aero (LV2)=Aerora (LV1)=>Tornado (LV1)

This is the table on wikiwiki, I don't understand how the letters work.

*The combination of abilities added by command charge. They are selected from the table below by combining the commands used as materials.
**Ex) Fire+Fire=A, Blizzard+Blizzard=E



{{neumannz|time=03:06, May 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=Here, this matches the letters to commands: [http://www.gamefaqs.com/psp/943347-kingdom-hearts-birth-by-sleep/faqs/59102] Do a search on the page for <nowiki>[COL:CC]</nowiki>

Obviously, it most likely needs to be verified.

EDIT: Well, it's the same as the wikiwiki, really, just it's all on one page instead of on multiple pages. Basically each recipe has a corresponding letter.}}

== Meld Commands? ==

{{Pea14733|time=11:33, September 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=It is now called ''Meld Commands'' isn't it?
See here : http://na.square-enix.com/khbbs/#/gameplay/}}

{{ErryTalk|text=It is, here's a screenshot:
http://i56.tinypic.com/ae3ceu.jpg}}

== Minimum Level Requirement? ==

I played Aqua's story earlier today and it seems there are certain level requirement for one ability to be made able for "melding." For example: a Fire command needs to be at least level 2 for melding. I don't know if this is true or not, but all of my level 1 commands can't be melded. [[User:17master|17master]] 16:06, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
{{WB|Ven=Yes every Command need must be in a certain level before used in melding. For example, if a Command's Max Level is 4 then it can only be used in melding when its Lvl 3-4! Got it?}}
Okay, I got it thanks :D Shouldn't we note that on the article? I mean, even the example (should be) wrong [[User:17master|17master]] 13:03, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

==Work In Progress==
Hi all, I'm working on putting in all of the command recipes... got A through C done tonight. Will work on getting a few more in tonight while I watch SNL. If you see in an errors/you think I'm doing this totally wrong, let me know! If everyone could help out by putting a few in that'd be great. Leave a message here if you plan on inputting a group of commands so I don't have to research them. Don't forget to list them alphabetically and keep the formatting the same.

Thanks. [[User:Xegreny|Xegreny]] 03:08, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

The work is much appreciated, but if the chart isn't finished it probably isn't a good idea to put it on the article just yet. Work on it on your userpage or a subpage like [[User:Maggosh/Prize Pod]].{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}03:36, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

The chart is actually finished (well.. more like 95%). The only part I have left to do is look up the minimum level you can meld all the commands at. Anyway, I'll copy it to my userpage then. You'll have to forgive me, I've never particpated in a wiki project before. Been a long time fan of KHW and with BBS I decided it was time to contribute. Should I leave the part of the chart I have on the article..? [[User:Xegreny|Xegreny]] 03:50, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, well if that's the case then we can probably leave it up and just improve it along the way.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}04:03, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Alright I'll keep at it then. Thanks to Xion Valentine for fixing my mistakes. (Also sorry about throwing this at the top of the talk by mistake. EMBARRASSING.) [[User:Xegreny|Xegreny]] 04:06, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
:I'm really sorry about this (I ''did'' try to stop it before), but we're not going to be doing a full table. As with all other synthesized object pages, we'll list the info on the final product's page under its "recipes" section, and for the ingredients, we'll list "Commands which X is used to synthesize". See [[Mythril]] and [[Ultima Weapon]], for example.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 04:28, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

:: D'oh. Well, I've already researched the entire table.. I'll put it up on my userpage for people if they want it. I'll get to work on updating all the deck command pages then! Thanks. [[User:Xegreny|Xegreny]] 04:32, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

{{Edgeshadow|time=03:52, October 2, 2010 (UTC)|talk=Here is my contribution:http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/User:Edgeshadow/Command_Melding}}

== Command Meld Template ==

{{LA|Vtext=[[User:LegoAlchemist/Lab#Command Meld Template|I'm working on one]]. Do you think we could use it? And I think I missed a field... did I?}}
Not sure it's necessary, since all the information can basically be covered in a normal Recipe section.

In the event I'm wrong, you could include the probability of "rare occurrences", although I feel the normal occurrences and the rare occurrences might need subtly different setups.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 02:06, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
:I just thought the recipe sections looked a little messy, is all. --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 02:13, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

What about the current model, on [[Blitz]]?  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 02:49, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
:THAT looks fine. Just replace "Blitz can be synthesized through Command Meld" With the template. --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 03:02, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

==Command Meld List==

{{VonFrank|text= I have added a Command Meld List that I have been working on with the reference of the list in the BBS Strategy Guide and other information gathered from various sources. The list only includes the Attack commands so far, but I will include the Magic and Action commands as well soon.}}

It's rather impressive. Having said that, it's an even bet that Kryten will either love you or rake you over hot coals. I rather look forward to seeing which it is.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 20:25, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

{{VonFrank|text= Yeah, I don't know what to expect. I think that it is a valuable asset to the page because it has the information all in one place. People can easily and quickly reference it other than having to look up the specific article of the command they are wanting and just hope that someone has filled in what is needed to meld it.}}

True, the only thing it doesn't give explicitly is the relationship between the "rare occurrences" and the associated "normal occurrences".  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 20:33, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

{{UnknownChaser|time=add 5 hour to where you live, then subtract 32 minutes and 69 second, then add 13 hour to it and divided by 2 hour and finally add 1 hour and that is my time.
|text=The list is amazing and impressive, wish I had it when I was going through Attacks command and re-updating them, so I didn't had to keep going back and forward between the guide and other sources. Keep up the good work.
}}
{{SilverCrono|time=20:46, January 9, 2011 (UTC)|troll=It's not finished. 

I'm not really trolling, good job >.> 


...

But yeah, it's not finished.}}

{{VonFrank|text= Yeah, I know. Like I said this is only the Attack Commands. I'm currently working on the Magic Commands. You can view my talk page to see my progress and comment on suggestions or corrections if you'd like.}}
{{KrytenKoro|It's completely unnecessary, and would have to end up being about twenty pages long to be complete, as in the guide. Even then, the guide has incomplete coverage, since it doesn't cover the transformations comprehensively, or the recipe item needed.

The system we have now allows you to find a recipe by abilities desired, end product desired, and inputs desired.

We also don't do recipe lists for the other games, so doing this would require us to do so. However, this kind of thing would be good for a walkthrough in your userspace. If you want, I can move it to your userspace.}}

{{VonFrank|text= Well I have to disagree with you there. I find the current system cumbersome and unorganized in comparison to a list that is all in one place. Yes, it would be difficult (but not impossible) to consider every rare occurrence meld, but that can be covered in detail on the page for every deck command (like the way it is now). I think that keeping this list here for a quick reference and leaving the detailed information on the page for each command is the best option. Besides, you can click a command on the list to take you to it's page where the details are more fully covered.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Okay, so you're missing the correct percentages (there should be one for each character). You're missing what it can transform into. You're missing what levels the commands need to be. You're also missing what recipe you need to predict the outcome.

Your current draft is already about two pages long, and takes up the entire width of the screen. At best, you could get some more width by turning the Terra, Ventus, Aqua columns into rows. Then you have the fact that if completely done, completely, this would still be about ten pages long, at least. It would absolutely not fit on the page without distending it drastically, and people would have to use the pop-out table view.

Finally, the current system is still being uploaded, yes, but it allows you to search for recipes by attachable ability, by input, and by output, and covers the transformations. I honestly don't see what the benefit of having the list in one place would be, since you can't meld every command at the same time - you pick commands, and you meld them, one at a time.}}

{{VonFrank|text= I understand where you're coming from, and I agree that it would have to be a massive table to completely cover everything. That's why this is only a quick reference list and not a comprehensive guide. Obviously it's not up to me, but since the finished table will only be about double the length it is now, i feel that there's no harm in adding it to the page.
Whatever the outcome, thanks for adding the Recipes page to my userspace. If its not up here, it can at least be somewhere.}}
{{KrytenKoro|We don't need a quick reference list for the sake of being there. If it's not comprehensive, and even worse, if it ''can't'' be comprehensive, then it's pretty much useless. It ends up being pretty much redundant, and possibly disingenuous (most especially with the percentages, which are NOT one number that applies to each character).

This kind of thing would be fine for a walkthrough (and you can totally start one), sure, but as an encyclopedia, we don't want our pages to have incomplete lists simply to be there.}}
{{LA|Vtext=I get what both of you are saying. The table looks brilliant. But you're right as to how it would take up too much space on the article. I think this template would work better on each Command's separate article, not in one big list.}}
{{TNE|time=11:16, 15 November 2011 (UTC)|blahtext=I know it's been a while since this discussion was brought up, but I beg to differ. I just checked the page for Quake as an example, and all it says is that it can be created through Command Melding, and that is all. It doesn't tell you ''what'' to put together.

Final Fantasy X has an entire list of Mixes, for example, and everyone can detail what actually ''goes'' into the mixes. Now, why aren't we doing the same? What you guys are saying, is EFFECTIVELY similar to "We have the sleight values and cards on each ability page; we don't need the Sleight page anymore". That is plain nonsense. To add on to that, the ability pages don't even have enough data.

I'm playing BBS now, and I'm finding it especially troublesome, and I suggest we do something about it. I.e., put the table of command meld possibilities in there right away.}}
{{KrytenKoro|That is not the argument at all. The reason we don't have a Command Meld table is that it is impossible for us to make one that is comprehensive; all previous attempts had to make gross oversimplifications.

As for what to put together for Quake: Look at the Recipe section. It is ''very'' detailed.}}
{{TNE|time=15:36, 16 November 2011 (UTC)|text=So without being funny — if we were to call for a table here, what would we look for? What would ''not'' be oversimplifying it? How would we sort it? Because things which are long overdue need to be at least begun.}}

@Kryten: Not quite. There is one that was closer to comprehensive than any other I've seen so far: [[User:Maggosh/SandboxX]].  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 16:17, 16 November 2011 (UTC)


{|cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=0 align="center"
|
<div class="tabber" style="float:right;">
<div class="tabbertab" title="Attack" style="float: right; background-color:white">
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|- bgcolor="#3A3A3A"
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Command'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Class'''
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|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''A'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Ingredient'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Ingredient'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Type'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''From'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''To'''
|}
</div><div class="tabbertab" title="Magic" style="float: right; background-color:white">
{|border=1 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0 class="sortable" style="text-align:center; font-size:10px" align="center" width=650px
|- bgcolor="#3A3A3A"
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Command'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Class'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''T'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''V'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''A'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Ingredient'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Ingredient'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Type'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''From'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''To'''
{{BBSComRow|Quake|Magic|Ultimate|T|Brutal Blast|4|Brutal Blast|4|N|Geo Impact|30}}
{{BBSComRow|Tornado|Magic|Ultimate|V|Aero|2|Aero|2|E|Aerora|5}}
|}
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|- bgcolor="#3A3A3A"
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Command'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Class'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''T'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''V'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''A'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Ingredient'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Ingredient'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Type'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''From'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''To'''
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</div><div class="tabbertab" title="Block" style="float: right; background-color:white">
{|border=1 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0 class="sortable" style="text-align:center; font-size:10px" align="center" width=650px
|- bgcolor="#3A3A3A"
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Command'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Class'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''T'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''V'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''A'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Ingredient'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Ingredient'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''Type'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''From'''
|style="font-size:12px; color:white; text-align:center"|'''To'''
|}
</div></div>
|}

There you go, have at it.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:11, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
:And by this I mean, someone is going to need to go through the guide and build the tables. Someone who has the time to.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:53, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Some thoughts on improvement ==

The prior discussion on having a table for the command melding recipes for this page reached the appropriate conclusion that the sheer quantity of information was too unwieldly to include on a single page and I fully agree with having that information elsewhere in more manageable chunks. With the amount of information presently on the page though, I feel that it serves little purpose on its own and might be better served by being made a section within the Deck Command (BBS) page. For this page to remain independent, I feel it should at minimum include a list of commands that can be created through Melding, preferably with addition information (i.e. which commands can ONLY be obtained through melding). Notably, the Command Conversion mechanic from Re:Coded is part of the Command Matrix page. At present though, if I'm looking for information on command melding recipes, I'll find that information faster by starting with the Deck Command list than I will with this page. 
As a separate discussion, I was thinking about the possibility of a new table template for the individual command pages that offers more details on the recipes a command is used in, not just those that make the command itself. At present, the pages merely list what commands can be made, but asks readers to visit a different page to learn precisely how. One advantage such a table might add is to show the pairing between standard command recipes and rare transformations, something which isn't spelled anywhere. --[[User:JeruTz|JeruTz]] ([[User talk:JeruTz|talk]]) 17:24, 5 June 2023 (UTC)