Editing Talk:Ansem the Wise

Who thinks it's better to put:
==Kingdom Hearts II==

== xehenort-gardian? ==
I know the title seems stupid but bare withme I need help,were did the get the infomation on this line 

"The sage was also the one who found the young Xehanort, on the brink of death, in the aftermath of a great battle by those who used Keyblades to fight"

that is amazing,everyone who reads this is instatly going to jump to the conclution that the "gardian" from the kh2 secret ending is xhenort. This is to awsome.

sincerly luis



==A Grave Mistake==
and to state which game(s) the character is in. but lets say the character is in one game only than the second variation is better but not with multiple games. Does anyone understand? Anyone, anyone? -[[User:Azul81677|Azul]] 22:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
:You could just make KHII a level 2 headline and make the rest level 3 headlines. --[[User:Hecko X|Hecko X]] 04:44, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

==Only one to die on screen==

One part in Trivia says Ansem the Wise is the only friendly character in the series to die on screen. But Axel turns remotly friendly in Betwixt and Between, and he died on screen?

I completely agree because Axel helps Sora so wouldn't that mean that he would be friendly? And besides, Ansem doesn't die because he is shown in the Reconnect. Kingdom Hearts video.

==Kairi's grandfather ==

On the slight possibility that she is a blood relative of Kairi, why does this article mention she might be Kairi's grandpa? wouldn't biological father be just as likey?

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He's would have to be her father. He would look old, like [[Kairi's Grandmother]] if he was her grandfather.--[[User:PrincessAndie8thprincessofheart|PrincessAndie8thprincessofheart]] 15:58, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

{{TNE|blahtext=Kairi would've easily gone past Riku's restraint when Ansem was about to die, if there '''were''' any biological relations. Think about it.}}

she might not remember.

{{TNE|blahtext=Come on, just because someone doesn't remember doesn't mean that he/she can't be moved with pity to that of a parent-child relationship ! Technically, if you look at it, a parent-child relationship is '''''by instinct''''', that is to say, there will be some special bond between the two, even if they don't even know it. If there had actually been such a bond even if Kairi wasn't "fathered" by Ansem the Wise, she'd have gone past Riku's restraint.

Xehanort also said that "he took a girl from Radiant Garden" - by saying "a girl" he did not necessarily mean "a princess". And you don't have to be a Princess to be a Princess of Heart. Take a look at Alice, for instance.}}

{{NinjaSheik|text=She's right, you know. Just because you're a Princess of Heart, doesn't really mean you need to be a princess for real. Alice was picked because of her pure heart and Kairi, too. And by the Ansem's report, it says he took a girl from Radiant Garden! Took! He didn't actually said his granddaughter, did he?}}

that was Xehanort's Heartless (who for Kingdom hearts and Com was known as "Ansem") and familial bonds '''aren't''' automatic.If I never knew who my father was (or anything from before I was 5) than I wouldn't bond over the course of a minute.It would take months,years of getting to know each other.

{{TNE|blahtext=Getting to know each other is greater than just a '''''humane act''''' of saving the other's life. Also, you have the Princess of Heart fact to deal with, if you wanna argue about Kairi's "royal" bloodline.}}

Humane act is one thing,But king mickey and Riku would have certainly known more about him and didn't do Squat

{{TNE|text=Think carefully : Mickey and Riku would've known more about him, yes, and so would Squall. But if that were really the case, wouldn't Squall have revealed more about Kairi to Sora when they were together in the Small House ? Ansem wouldn't have disclosed this information if there were no links in the first place. Also, in his Secret Reports, he refers to Kairi like he would Riku and Sora. There was absolutely no difference between them. Surely a father would've had a greater degree of affection !}}

Most father haven't been betrayed by their disciples,Been impersonated with everyone beleiving them to be the bad guy(why couldn't Squall tell that Xehanort wasn't really ansem if you think Mr.Lionheart was so close to ansem the wise.)most fathers wouldn't have been locked away in a realm of absolute nothing with their own daughter not remembering them,and nothing but the power of darkness and a lust for revenge to their name.
"I was...Obsessed with thoughts of revenge.My apprentices stole everything precious to me,my research, and my pride."

{{TNE|text=In the last report, then, his tone is more subdued because Sora is almost restored, and Ansem the Wise shows his affection for Radiant Garden. Even in that "forgive me" moment, even when he let go of his revenge and got back all his old emotions, he still didn't distinguish between Sora, Riku and Kairi.

If at that high point in time he still can't remember his daughter, something must be seriously wrong somewhere. Or, it's not the father.}}

even then he states that his revenge is still on-going.he asked for forgiveness but didn't state he was going to stop.
and perhaps after everything that happened,after all he lost,maybe he just couldn't rub salt in the wound

{{TNE|text=Couldn't rub salt in the wound ? Calling upon Mickey was just as bad, if the two were very close friends.

This is more like a law class where we have to prove evident ties of love and affection before even actually proving that there is a familial relationship... darn}}

that is more difficult when one of the parties doesn't remember said ties. i suggest waiting for BBS

{{TNE|remerciement=Oh yeah. I just hope it won't be a long wait.....}}

One mississipi,two mississipi,three mississipi...

Sorry just noticed this, Why would squall Know anything about ansem, He couldn't recognize Xehanort for being an Imposter?[[Special:Contributions/70.144.122.24|70.144.122.24]] 19:46, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

== Some fun little trivia... Should it be put in Ansem's Trivia section? ==

Christopher Lee and Corey Burton also have another character they share: Count Dooku from the Star Wars franchise. (Lee portrayed Dooku in Star Wars Episodes II and III, and Burton voiced the same character in the "The Clone Wars" animated movie and TV series.)
[[User:AJ the Shinigami|AJ the Shinigami]] 23:08, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

{{Pokhmon|time=09:34, January 31, 2010 (UTC)|text=lets not put it in the trivia section its only relevant to the voice acxtors not the character }}

== Apprentices ==

{{Template:ST|time=18:13, December 1, 2009 (UTC)|text=I am of the opinion that we should have an "Ansem's Apprentices" page. Any thoughts?}}
{{TNE|time=23:33, December 1, 2009 (UTC)|blahtext=No, let's not make the page. Because if we do, we'll only have a little bit to speak about them - the same info can be found on Ansem the Wise's page and the pages of the other apprentices. We've already linked back to them from Ansem the Wise, I think that should suffice.}}
{{Template:ST|time=18:36, December 7, 2009 (UTC)|text=Think we should at least have a template?}}
{{NitrousX|text=Yeah, I think we should have a template.}}
I agree that there should at least be a template
--[[User:ZexionFan321|ZexionFan321]] 02:12, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
{{TNE|time=03:06, May 4, 2010 (UTC)|blahtext=I beg to differ. We're not going to end up with another one-liner template like the Princesses of Heart. There are six apprentices, and we're not going to waste another ''toccolours'' template JUST FOR THAT !}}

== Questions ==

Did Ansem the Wise always have amber coloured eyes or did it happen after he was banished to the Realm of Nothingness and escaped using the power of darkness?--[[Special:Contributions/94.197.98.63|94.197.98.63]] 14:58, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

The picture in the article seems to have amber eyes too.--[[User:Masgrande|Masgrande]] 23:29, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

== Birth by Sleep Spoilers ==
Apparently taking place after Kingdom Hearts II, Ansem the Wise and Master Aqua meet up at the Dark Margin to await Sora's return so he can 'free them from their torment.'[[User:XYZach|XYZ.]] 05:24, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
:So, considering that and the data Ansem put into Sora, is he the reason coded and BBS are "connected"?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:00, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
While it is true that Ansem states new facts about Sora, he also makes reference to other "crippled creatures" that may or may not be him and Aqua or Terra and Ven. It is also unverified that the line in Jimminy's Journal, "We must return to free them from their torment." is directly referencing Ansem and Aqua. While it is probable, it's not defininte. We do not know if Sora even saw this line from Journal.[[User:Neverfate|Neverfate]] 18:03, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

== Birth by sleep ==

The Birth by sleep logo (heart thing) does not appear at the top of this page; I do not know how to add it

== DiZ page ==

I am of the opinion we should have a seperate DiZ page as it was one of Ansems seperate identities. i only say this because of the Captain Dark and Captain Light pagesShadowsTwilight 19:52, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
::First off, it's '''Captain Justice'''. And it's not really a form. True "DiZ" has great significance, just like Captain Dark and Justice do (hence their own articles, regardless of the fact it's just Pete in some new duds). It's the same case : Ansem wraps a bandage around his head and calls himself "Darkness in Zero." Ergo, he's still Ansem, not a new form/character. - [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII|EternalNothingnessXIII]] 19:56, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
And Pete puts on a fruity Costume and calls himself captain justice or captain dark. It's still pete. and his and DiZ is too a form. Even his facial form changed if you look real close. besides, riku got a page for one of his [[Riku (Xehanort's Heartless)|forms]], and its not much different ShadowsTwilight 05:28, February 21, 2010 (UTC)



I think DiZ should have his own page because he is his own charecter in his own write, think about it. DiZ and Ansem the Wise are the same person but also diffrent in meany diffrent ways thats my opinion anyway. Docyx 23 March 2010

{{NAB|time=19:15, April 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=It seems to me we should keep this page up for a similar reason, it's kind like how there are four different Xehenorts (master, Terra, Ansem, Xemnas)  Though not a new entity like these guys, Diz was still ''different'' from Ansem the Wise.  Diz was who he had to become to survive in the nothing and dark relms even his outfit (which seems to hold similar properties to the coats) had to change about him.  He also could use coridors of darkness and change his apperance (as Heartless Ansem to Riku in CoM: Re/Re)}}

{{NAB|time=19:32, April 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=Although, I just looked over the page again and sense there is so little information maybe we should change it into a Form page perhaps AND we have a detailed DIZ part in the Ansem the Wise page}}
:It is seriously just some ribbons around his face. He still acts the same as he does at the end of the game, and has no unique abilities or anything.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 20:09, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

{{NAB|time=22:51, April 26, 2010 (UTC)|text=It the ribbons change his whole wardrobe and his skin tone (it's red)and his beard is gone as well and the only other thing known to do that is the coats when they transform say Riku's vest and jeans into a black jumpsuit and boots.  Also it's not known about Ansem the Wise, but DIZ freely used darkness where as Ansem didn't, though that might just be that he "died" about a half hour later.}}
:They don't change his whole wardrobe, because he's still wearing it. As for the beard, you can flatten stuff pretty fully when you wrap it down. Same way actors can wear a convincing bald wig. The skin color thing around his mouth - yes, that's different, but it's much more reasonable to chalk that up to Nomura fudging a detail to make it a "twist", rather than DiZ actually being physically different. All the other forms we cover in the games are physically different in nature - if it is visibly a change of clothes, there is still a prominent magical difference. Ribbons around the head just really don't achieve that meaningfulness.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 00:31, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

{{NAB|time=00:59, April 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=I'm starting to get your point, but I'm nothing if not thruough so I'll just run the red smoke that comes off when he reveals himself to you, and can I just chalk up the no magic differece to the fact that you're ignoring (and I'll say it again) DIZ's liberal use of portals of darkness and changing himself into Ansem Seeker of Darkness? }}
{{KrytenKoro|Ignoring? Not at all. There's simply no evidence that his magical nature ''changes''. Read what I said again.}}

{{NAB|time=02:50, April 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=How many ways do I have to ask it then, explain how in the nine rings he was able to change into Ansem the Heartless and get around the relm of darkness without a nature change?}}
May I remind people of the contents of Secret Ansem Report 6, which states: <blockquote>...I gained a newfound power.
A superhuman power—the power of darkness.
...With this new power, I uncovered a "corridor of darkness" that connects the realm of nothingness to the outside world...
To deceive Xehanort and my apprentices, I first used my power to change form before returning to the realm of light.
</blockquote>
He disguised himself with the power of darkness, but I don't think that counts as "changing his nature". --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 03:01, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
:Wow, NAB, you don't listen at all.
:I am ''not'' saying that DiZ doesn't have magical powers. I am saying that ''there is no evidence that Ansem does not have the same magical powers''. For example, Sora's Wisdom Form has abilities that Final Form does not, and vice versa. They have separate magical natures. The same goes with his Merman Form and Lion Form. For Ansem, however, the only difference that we know of is that he takes the bandages off his face. Same clothes, and as far as we know, same abilities. We only want to have distinct pages if the character is distinct - for example, while Roxas is a form of Sora, he is a distinct being. '''There is no evidence whatsoever that DiZ is a distinct being from Ansem the Wise'''.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 03:16, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

{{NAB|time=04:32, April 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=I listen, you just didn't say anything of substance.  If you (well Neumannz realy, good on ya mate) would have brought up evidence like that earlier, than we would have gotten farther along with this converstation in less space on the wall.  
I was the one to prepose a Form (Valor, Wisdom, Anti, Dark, Justice, Lion, X's Heartless, ect...engh) page in the first place for Diz back in my second post, but sense you just went along with the "they are one" argument I thought I'd just let you establish a side and I'll back up the other before we go compromising as it useually works out best that way.  
I don't know the techical shit, I'll leave that to you, but my vote is we make DIZ (as preposed above) both a subsection of the Ansem the Wise article, but we should also make a more detailed Form Article on the subject because of the major differences and story signifigance  (just like X's Heartless was for Riku and all the animal/world forms are to the Party)}}
But there '''is''' no major difference. It's an alias and a disguise, but it's not a different form. He doesn't have new abilities, behaviors, or motivations. He isn't being possessed. Granted, it is a transformation, but it is only a cosmetic one. --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 04:48, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

{{NAB|time=05:00, April 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=Wait now, you're the one who just showed me the bit of the report that said when he got this new identity he also obtained the power of darkness.  I think we're on the same page here, jus' different paragraphs.  I guess if I can't keep you from merging the two (which I still beleive to be seperate) can I at least implore that we put as detailed a subsection as we can on the subject, his transformation's Story-significance warrents that}}--
::''"If you (well Neumannz realy, good on ya mate) would have brought up evidence like that earlier, than we would have gotten farther along with this converstation in less space on the wall."''
:::Are you serious? Neumannz and me have been repeating the same thing since the beginning. Neumannz was even quoting me, for goodness sake.
:::Once we merge, there will still be no point in a "DiZ" subsection. DiZ '''''is''''' Ansem, I can't stress that enough. Any coverage on "DiZ" would simply be Ansem's plot synopsis between BBS and the end of KHII -- frankly, that's how the article already covers it.[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 05:30, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
{{neumannz|time=05:36, April 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=What I mean is that he gained the power of darkness ''first'', and ''then'' he took on the persona of DIZ.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Neumannz, looking at this page, do you think it satisfactorily covers DiZ's powers over darkness (plot-wise)? If not, what needs to be added?}}
You mean '''Ansem the Wise'''? Well, lessee...
<blockquote>For some time, Ansem remained in the empty realm, constantly writing in order to maintain his sanity. Here, he also discarded his old, stolen name, and became DiZ ("Darkness in Zero"). Eventually, he found a way to escape when he gained the power of darkness, though he did not intend to let himself be consumed by it like his apprentices. With his new found powers, DiZ also garbed himself in a red robe and a mask made of red bandages in order to fully conceal his real identity.</blockquote>
Well, if I remember correctly, Ansem's disguise involved using darkness to change his complexion and hide his beard (was it from an interview?) as opposed to just the bandages. At the very least, the S.A. Report indicates he used darkness. That should be indicated more clearly, I think.

Other than that, I think the "transformation" into DiZ is covered well enough. The rest of the article details what he did as DiZ, so I think it's fine.  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 06:04, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
{{neumannz|time=06:07, April 27, 2010 (UTC)|text=Oh, right, I forgot the Abilities section. That seems to be thorough enough.}}
I think DiZ deserves his own page because as Docyx states he is his own character in his own right and Riku-Ansem has its own page and it is just a different version of Riku as is DiZ a different version of Ansem. --[[User:ZexionFan321|ZexionFan321]] 02:29, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
{{neumannz|time=02:33, May 4, 2010 (UTC)|text=Did you read the whole conversation? DiZ is not his own character in his own right, and Riku-Ansem has different abilities. That's what makes one a form and the other not.}}
:Neumannz, did I miss anything in the merge?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 04:00, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
It's looks like you grabbed everything. It could use a bit of proofreading (tenses and the like), but that's not because of the merge. Looks like a smooth merge to me.  --[[User:Neumannz|Neumannz]] 04:21, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

== his name ==

{{Durrf9|time=21:05, March 3, 2010 (UTC)|text=why is he called DiZ?}}
{{EO|time=21:10, March 3, 2010 (UTC)|text=It's an abbreviation for the full name, "'''D'''arkness '''I'''n '''Z'''ero"}}

Yes, come to think of it, alot of Kingdom Hearts characters have strange names. Demyx? Xaldin? Ansem? Xehanort? I certainitly couldn't come up with 15 names with an X in them. ([[User:Bananaphone1996|Bananaphone1996]] 00:07, April 15, 2010 (UTC))

== change ==

can you change the realm of nothingness to darkness because ansem told aqua he's been there before during blank points.

He wasn't talking about after the machine exploded. The only time he's ever been known to have been in the RoN is after Xehanort banished him. He said he wandered around there for a while.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}01:47, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
:Right, but he's calling that the realm of darkness. Everything he uses to describe it fits how Aqua describes it, as well - "realm of nothingness" is just a metaphor or poetic phrase, not an actual term.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 06:34, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
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 :So, considering that and the data Ansem put into Sora, is he the reason coded and BBS are "connected"?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 22:00, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
 While it is true that Ansem states new facts about Sora, he also makes reference to other "crippled creatures" that may or may not be him and Aqua or Terra and Ven. It is also unverified that the line in Jimminy's Journal, "We must return to free them from their torment." is directly referencing Ansem and Aqua. While it is probable, it's not defininte. We do not know if Sora even saw this line from Journal.[[User:Neverfate|Neverfate]] 18:03, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
-:I just wanna say, despite this being a very old conversation, that I knew Ansem the Wise wasn't dead. I had done countless playthroughs of KHII and thought, "If he has the power of darkness, why didn't he use it to save himself from the blast?" Then I added it to the trivia section that he could've done that. It got taken down of course, which in retrospect was understandable due to it being speculative at the time, albeit speculation that made a shitload of sense. I was only half right it seemed. (waits for people to give sarcastic comments like "Want a cookie?" or the like)[[User:Lying Memories|Lying Memories]] 22:24, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 == Birth by sleep ==
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 He wasn't talking about after the machine exploded. The only time he's ever been known to have been in the RoN is after Xehanort banished him. He said he wandered around there for a while.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}01:47, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
 :Right, but he's calling that the realm of darkness. Everything he uses to describe it fits how Aqua describes it, as well - "realm of nothingness" is just a metaphor or poetic phrase, not an actual term.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 06:34, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
-== change  ==
-can you change the last part of blank points section to the lives he managed to ruin instead of "cripped"
-== Re:coded ==
-I'm unsure of if it should be noted here as an appearance, but from a vid of Re:coded I've seen, Namine makes reference to DiZ in the game's ending, and tells the Data-Sora he "hid" something inside the regular Sora during his sleep but wouldn't tell her what, saying he was "clearing his conscience." It's visible at 43:00 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1R2-UeMXPY here]. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Doreiku]][[User talk:Drake Clawfang|Kuroofangu]]  05:03, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
-Ansem himself mentions he "hid" his research within Sora to "Clear his conscience" in Blank Points. Evnyofdeath 05:16, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
-:Ah. Apologies, I'd not seen the English version of the vid. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Doreiku]][[User talk:Drake Clawfang|Kuroofangu]]  05:28, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
-== No Combat Abilities? ==
-Doesn't he mimic Xehanort's Heartless enough for a small fight with Riku? Related, isn't he the one who gives Riku Dark Mode?[[User:Neo Bahamut|Neo Bahamut]] ([[User talk:Neo Bahamut|talk]]) 01:44, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
-:I believe so, but doesn't that amount to using illusions?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 02:07, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
-== The Passing of Christopher Lee ==
-The Death of Christopher Lee was announced today. He died on June 7, 2015. --[[User:Doggieboy9|Doggieboy9]] ([[User talk:Doggieboy9|talk]]) 18:57, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
-I just read the article on ANN! T _ T May he RIP.--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 19:52, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
-Shouldn't his passing be mentioned in the article somewhere? I mean, the passing of several other well known actors, like Leonard Nimoy for Xehanort and Wayne Allwine for Mickey, have been noted on their respective pages. [[User:Blackchaos27|Blackchaos27]] ([[User talk:Blackchaos27|talk]]) 05:00, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
-Hmm, sure, I don't see the problem with it. Although Burton did take over the whole even before his passing, it doesn't change the fact Lee voiced Ansem for a time. Any objections from anyone else?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 19:14, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
-==DDD Riku==
-In DDD, when Riku was inside of Sora's dreams/Sora's heart, he met up with a Data-Ansem the Wise. Why did he ask Riku what his name was? Why doesn't he recognize Riku? Don't they know each other? --[[User:Elfdemon|Elfdemon]] ([[User talk:Elfdemon|talk]]) 06:36, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
-:This was an allusion to the prologue scene in Kingdom Hearts II where Ansem the Wise asks the same question and Riku answers "Ansem" (because he looks like Ansem SoD). In a way this was kind of an inside joke, or maybe even a small test to see if Riku thinks he really is Riku this time around, it also shows how he grew as a character. --[[Special:Contributions/217.51.224.130|217.51.224.130]] 06:48, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
-::Ah, okay. I had completely forgot about that. Thanks --[[User:Elfdemon|Elfdemon]] ([[User talk:Elfdemon|talk]]) 07:11, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
-== Main image ==
-Can we use the KH2 labcoat image, as it's the last form he takes in KH3? Also, can we in general avoid using black coat images as main images, where possible?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 21:58, 4 June 2019 (UTC)