Editing KHWiki talk:Chat

==Rules rewrite proposal==
Please take a look at [[Kingdom Hearts Wiki:IRC/Draft|this]]. I believe it is easier to read and more concise than the current rules section. I would appreciate your comments or edits. Thanks![[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Glorious</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>CHAOS!</small>]] 02:45, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

==Problem==
{{NitrousX|text=I think there might be something wrong with the IRC. Everytime I go to the link, it's just a blank page! I don't know if everyone is having this problem, or if it's just me, but I'd really like to get back on! Could someone help me fix it?}}

{{Xabryn|text=it's not just with you the same thing is happening to me}}

{{NitrousX|text=Well at least we know we're not the only ones. I hope it can be fixed soon...}}

{{Xion4ever|time=15:49, February 12, 2010 (UTC)|talktext=This is just a five min. log in, but I digress. I used to have the same problem with the IRC. Whenever you log into the IRC and join the KH Wiki channel if the page is still blank do this:

Look at the top of the screen (near the url "address" bar), to the right of that bar you will see the refresh button and the stop button. Check that area again, this time there might be an image of a piece of paper cut in half (that is the compatability button. Its purpose is for to help websites designed for older browsers will often look better, problems such as out-of-place menus, images, or text will be corrected). Click on that button and refresh the page; you should be able to log in again. Once I clicked on that button, I was able to log into the IRC channel. 

If this doesn't work, then don't log into the IRC channel for a few days. After a day or so has passed, attempt to log back in. Finally, if that doesn't work, I can check to see if you were banned (which I seriously doubt).}}

{{NitrousX|text=Xion, you're a genius, thank you!!!}}

{{Dan da Man36|time=19:35, February 12, 2010 (UTC)|happy=It won't work with me =( The page refuses to load on Google Chrome, and on Internet Explorer, it won't let me send any messages... I'll try restarting my computer...

EDIT: 19:43, February 12, 2010 (UTC) Okay, It's working on Internet Explorer now, but not on Chrome.}}
{{Xion4ever|time=01:14, February 13, 2010 (UTC)|happytext=@ Nitrous: Your too kind. Did that fix your IRC problem?

@Dan: Try one/both of the ideas in my previous message. If they don't work, message me on my talkpage and I'll see whats up.}}

== Sorry ^_^ ==

I beg your pardon for the last comment I left... I meant "He may have left the wiki, but he's still an op" Sorry about that ^_^ [[User:Dan da Man36|<font face="Franklin Gothic Demi Cond" color="gold" size=4>Dan</font face>]]<font face="Franklin Gothic Demi Cond" color="blue" size=3> - </font face>[[User talk:Dan da Man36|<font face="Franklin Gothic Demi Cond" color="darkorange" size=2><small>IS KING OF THE PLATYPI!!!</small></font face>]] 21:52, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

== Problem ==

{{LA|Vtext=Recently, dated March 27, videos were linked to the mainspace entitled "Goosh Goosh". To those who have not seen it... it is basically hentei (anime porn) censored enough to be on youtube... bloody hentei. There was a large argument about the matter. Basically, it all boiled down to "This kind of thing should not be allowed". Because there is no rule concerning the matter, I would like to ask the admins (or ops) to add this rule, for the following reason:

Although the Freenode Rules do not allow children under 13 years of age, there are still, nonetheless, children on the IRC, and what is basically porn should not be allowed to be posted on the mainspace. Although one of the videos did have an "over 18" tag on it, the other did not, and even so, some youtubers fake their age to be able to see vids with the tag, and some users do that, and are able to see it. Several Users complained on the matter.

<big>'''This should not be allowed'''</big>

Either we have a video ban policy, or a policy specifically banning videos like that. Honestly, why was this never brought up before?

If one would like a copy of the conversation, I can post it, as I have saved the "discussion" for future viewing.}}

i have been reading it and i think we need a rule.[[User:ZACH|ZACH]] 05:01, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

{{LA|Vtext=Here is the conversation, for reference: 
*[http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac193/LegoAlchemist/gg1.png page 1]
*[http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac193/LegoAlchemist/gg2.png page 2]
*[http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac193/LegoAlchemist/gg3.png page 3]
*[http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac193/LegoAlchemist/gg4.png page 4]
*[http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac193/LegoAlchemist/gg5.png page 5]
*[http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac193/LegoAlchemist/gg6.png page 6]}}
{{TNE|time=01:58, March 29, 2010 (UTC)|blahtext=''Kingdom Hearts'' is G-rated ; videos should be G-rated, or at the most, PG-13. I wouldn't even bloody dare to put on Mylene Farmer's ''Je te rends ton amour'' for obvious reasons.

Unless, of course, I'm in a separate channel and I know for a fact that the people whom I'm speaking to are above 18 years of age (Blue and BebopKate, for example).

EDIT 03:34, March 29, 2010 (UTC) : Forgot to add on something : Freenode's rules are Freenode's rules, but remember that on KHW's IRC channel, we're using the rules from KHW, and thus, kids are entitled to get onto the IRC. Many people would want to discuss KH or things which have about the same feel, and please, no suggestive themes, particularly if you're on the main channel or speaking to kids. Be family-friendly. Though you might also want to see my statement on the separate channel above.}}
{{BebopKate|time=03:59, March 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=I'm pretty sure that it's well-known to most everyone, ''including'' the people involved in the chat, that '''anything''' posted should be PG rated at most; honestly, given my experience, PG-13 covers some pretty broad ground, including some stuff I would definitely not feel comfortable showing to kids.

I hesitate to ban video links exclusively because most people manage to post videos well within standards.  I don't think users who follow the rules should be punished because a couple of others used poor judgment.

For any ops or others who were there, were any actions taken against the users other than booting them?}}
{{JFHavoc|time=04:08, March 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=I do believe the video was posted by an op. As for the other op on the channel, I don't believe they took any action at all.}}
{{TNE|time=04:22, March 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=From the discussion, it seems that the op was involved, though I'm not sure (I'm not going to be on the IRC till after May 13th).}}
{{JFHavoc|time=04:27, March 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=He was alerted, but I'm not sure if he did anything about the situation. I don't quite remember the conversation. There was a lot of things being said in succession.}}
{{TNE|time=04:36, March 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=LA linked to it, didn't he ?}}
{{JFHavoc|time=04:37, March 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=I am too lazy to read through it again. ._.}}
{{TNE|time=04:41, March 29, 2010 (UTC)|blahtext=Bah, I understand.

The discussion's now made public ; to all who have yet to comment, please take a good look at it first.}}
{{LA|Vtext=I must say, I agree with what's been going on here. Video and picture links should be PG at most, there are all ages on the IRC. To clarify, there was an op there, and he posted the ''non-blocked'' video, meanwhile, another user (who admitted to being 14) posted the video blocked for viewers under 18. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking to punish the op, we just need an actual rule enforced, not just common sense.}}
{{LA|Vtext=Okay... BebopKate posted the rule, but DTN took it down. Um, Why? Seriously, it's a needed rule and it was clear and well written. What's the big idea?}}
{{neumannz|time=19:29, March 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=He didn't take it down, he moved it to the end of the list.}}
{{Dan da Man36|time=19:33, March 29, 2010 (UTC)|happy=Edit conflict: DTN didn't take it down, he just moved it to the end of the list. ^_^
Anyway, I agree, we do need this rule, and it needs to be implemented as soon as possible.}}
{{LA|Vtext=Oh, I guess I didn't see that. It's done then! ^_^}}
{{TNE|time=23:54, March 29, 2010 (UTC)|blahtext=About time.}}

== where do i go to chat about non kingdom hearts related things ==

--[[User:Keyhole15|Keyhole15]] 00:36, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

The IRC channel, of course. Wasn't that obvious?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 00:37, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, on the IRC, it's not like we talk about Kingdom Hearts all the time. We have topics from Lady Gaga to Pokemon there. :P --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 02:33, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
::<s>GAGA RO MA MA.</s> Yes, this is true. Chat is not limited to ''Kingdom Hearts''. --{{User:DoorToNothing/Sig}} 22:21, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

== Failed Commands? ==

{{EO|time=21:22, August 28, 2010 (UTC)|shocked=Is it possible that some of the commands listed in the "common commands" section don't work? I specifcially refer to the ignore command, the only one I've tried only to fail. Perhaps it's just the way I write it, which is "/ignore ________"}}
{{DTN|time=21:24, August 28, 2010 (UTC)|text=The ignore command can only ban a nick. Assuming that I know who you are trying to ignore, you will need to ban all variations of their nick as well. However, I completely am against using the ignore command, since it cuts off conections to other users who may need help, especially from a staffer.}}

== Uh.... ==

Okay.  The IRC is saying that access is blocked, is anyone else having this difficulty?  It just says: 
CGI:IRC access it currently blocked.  Please try again later or use http://webchat.freenode.net/

== hate ==

I hate the people on the irc.They mock me,look down on me,they will all pay.--[[User:The Dark Master|The Dark Master]] 03:55, January 16, 2011 (UTC)
:Hey, look, nobody was doing anything like that. As it looks like to me, you were being disruptive, you failed to heed to the warnings, and you got a ban. Look, it isn't the end of the world. It's just a chatroom. I know you're upset about your ban, but it will pass. I know how you feel. You're humiliated. I'm sorry about what happened to you. Let this be a lesson, okay? And don't hate the people on the IRC, because they certainly don't hate you.  You seem like a good guy, Dark Master. Don't put this against us, because we won't put it against you.
:I'll see you when your ban is over. Cheers~ --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 04:18, January 16, 2011 (UTC)
::<small>[[Forum:Huge problems on the IRC|I cannot shake the feeling that I somehow knew this was going to happen...]]</small> This actually brings up a rather interesting topic: what should we do about bans on the new IRC off-Wikia? Retain all current bans, or wipe everyone clean? --{{User:DoorToNothing/Sig}} 04:22, January 16, 2011 (UTC)
:::You knew someone would overreact to a one-week ban? No, you didn't. You're garnering Coor votes. :P I think we should give everyone a clean slate on the new Wiki channel. [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 04:28, January 16, 2011 (UTC) 
::::I believe that the community is going to remain rather the same on the new IRC. So probably keep them banned. However, if we keep them on a shorter leash, it might be fair to give the users who were previously banned a second chance. --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 04:29, January 16, 2011 (UTC)
I am shaking and so stressed I have not felt this bad in a long time.I feel like dirt.I was humilated.--[[User:The Dark Master|The Dark Master]] 04:26, January 16, 2011 (UTC)
:::::<!--hemad--> maggosh: Oh, I just meant that we would have more problems on the IRC. But that's rather irrelevant, since this IRC shall soon have its conditions altered once the new one is created. I'll start a new topic for my proposal. --{{User:DoorToNothing/Sig}} 04:32, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

== Proposal for managing the new IRC Channel ==
{{DTN|time=04:43, January 16, 2011 (UTC)|text=Okay, I've been handling the work regarding the new IRC Channel for the off-Wikia wiki, which looks like it will be for SEIWA. I've acquired several new channels to my account, to be safeguarded in case we decide to use them. However, my plan also concerns this wiki's IRC, possibly its continued existence.

#Create #SEIWA-KHWiki for the new wiki. Kryten and I attempted to create #KHWiki, but that gets into some forms we have to fill out with freenode to claim ownership. If we decide on this, Kryten or I can handle the forms--they prefer for it to be filled out by an administrator of the party wishing to claim the channel.
#''Consider'' forming ##khchat. Freenode has a few namespaces, just like wikis do. However, freenode just has two namespaces of channels: #channelspace and ##channelspace. Channels with just one hash are for official parties and businesses, whereas double-hash channels are for unofficial, lax, and relatively lesser groups. I have looked into the current state of #wikia-kingdomhearts and the way our neighbor wiki handles IRC channels, and have come to the conclusion we could benefit from:
##Forming two IRC channels--one is wiki-based, the other is social-based, but neither are ''totally'' restricted.
##Removing #wikia-kingdomhearts and instead using ##khchat for both wikis' social needs. #wikia-kingdomhearts currently is doing NOTHING GOOD to represent a professional wiki that is supposed to be an example of good work--however, that is not what the Wikia wiki will be in two weeks. So this could be blown off and ##khchat can just be forgotten. However, I do like the idea of ridding the channel, since this wiki has shown ''many'' instances of bad IRC issues and problems--just check the forums and IRC page's number of OP's. Perhaps it would be better to retain that level of social activity, but move it somewhere where it cannot badly reflect a wiki.

So leave opinions below. Personally, I'm all for using #SEIWA-KHWiki. As for this wiki's IRC, either way is fine. I'm not so much for ##khchat possibly merging the social and professional wikis on a high level, though our communities will possibly stay conjoined.}}
{{LA|medic=IMO, I like ''#seiwa-kingdomhearts''. It's sort of like ''#wikia-kingomhearts'', only SEIWA-ifyed.

As for the deletion of the current channel, I don't really think we should. After all, it's its own bar with its own community and noobs will gripe and moan about it being gone. So I say keep it, but since it's clearly an eyesore, don't advertise it so much. And not ''every''one there is horrid.

I think two IRC channels, one for socialization and one for wiki-business is a good idea. Considering how much serious talk gets lost in the chaos... well, it might be a good idea.}}
{{Soxra|ienzo=I'm in favor of #SEIWA-KingdomHearts, as long as it has stricter rules. A more lax channel like ##KHChat could be created to satisfy the lesser discussions.

<s>Ditch</s><!--Badly phrased, sorry-->Get rid of the current channel completely.|time={{User:Soxra/Sig|t=4:51am, January 16, 2011 (UTC)}}}}
{{Azul|time=04:40, January 17, 2011 (UTC)|text=I agree with LA. "Business" and "pleasure" must be separated. On the deletion of the current channel, it doesn't make a difference. The wiki will move and no longer be affiliated with that channel, so I guess it doesn't really matter. Remove it from the list and done.}}
{{SilverCrono|time=19:38, January 17, 2011 (UTC)|text=<s>No. Just make #KHWiki and be done with the current channel. No need for two, but we do need some better management.</s>
<table class="collapsible collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left"><h3>Influence on Crono's Decision</h3></th></tr>
<tr><td>
<pre>
[19:40:05] <DoorToNothing> The only problem is that #KHWiki is owned by freenode
[19:40:23] <SickCrono> Huh? Freenode "owns" channels?
[19:40:26] <DoorToNothing> So Kryten or myself would have to fill out a large form to send in to freenode, wait for them to process it, and finally get it POSSIBLY.
[19:40:28] <DoorToNothing> Yes.
[19:40:36] <SickCrono> Oh.
[19:40:38] <SickCrono> >.>
[19:40:43] <SickCrono> Well, I still say we try for it.
[19:40:48] <DoorToNothing> Ex: If I tried to /register the channel, it would say the channel is already owned by freenode.
[19:40:52] <SickCrono> If you do it now, we may get it in time >>
[19:41:06] <DoorToNothing> Also, your idea would mean both wikis share an IRC.
[19:41:10] DoorToNothing no likey :{
[19:41:14] <SickCrono> :S
</pre>
</td></tr>
</table>

I have seen the light. I'm with Soxra.}}

{{KKD|time=02:02, January 18, 2011 (UTC)|link=I don't really see the value of having a second channel, to be honest. The serious conversations are few and far between anyway, and most of the issues are "Troll! Block him!" or "Should the page be like this or this?" which can easily just be brought up in a query with an admin or mod. #seiwa-kingdomhearts sounds good to me for a name, though.}}
{{SSC|time=06:57, January 26, 2011 (UTC)|M-text=I say a second channel like ##khchat is a good idea. However, though, since we'll no longer be affiliated with #wikia-kingdomhearts, two channels will most likely be needed: one for the "main" stuff, another for the social.

… Sounds like a pain, setting up user flags, channel flags and the like, but, personally, I feel this is a good idea.

<!--inb4whendidthecycropseverhaveagoodidea-->}}
{{Xion4ever|time=18:43, January 29, 2011 (UTC)|text=You guys have pretty much covered everything I had in mind. I agree with Azul and DTN. Nice job, guys!}}

== Plan for the future ==

{{Sove|time=03:59, 27 April 2012 (UTC)|roxastalk=
<div style="border: 1px solid gray; border-style: dashed; border-radius: 15px;">
<Sove> Most # channels I'm in have filed no grf<br>
<Sove> :p<br>
<Ttech> Sove, However to reclaim one, you need a grf-f and once GMS is finished, you will need a GRF to have one.<br>
'''<+dax> One of these days, we're going to enable enforcement of the primary namespace, and the sound of "I told you so" from staff is going to render the userbase deaf for weeks'''.<br>
<Sove> dax, and all # channels not having one will be dropped automatically?<br>
'''<PriceKid> My one # channel got dropped'''<br>
<PriceKid> I was planning to get a grf-f<br>
<+dax> Sove: We're still working out the details, but I don't imagine they'll make off-topic channels very happy.<br>
</div>

Basically this means that our channels are under a constant danger of being forcefully dropped. Since gaming is off-topic to Freenode, the GRF-f sent by Kryten was denied. While the threat of forceful drop seems to be pretty minor, it still exists and things won't go nice when they start to enforce the channel naming policy, if they haven't yet dropped the channels at that point.

I think we should prepare a plan just in case the channel is forcefully dropped. We pretty much have three choices, if we'll need to move our channels.

1) Use #seiwa- prefix (eg. #seiwa-KHWiki). This had support before these present channels were registered (as you can see above). SEIWA is a registered group in Freenode and any channel under its namespace is protected from any possible forceful drop (except if I don't like the channel), and is considered an official channel in Freenode.

2) Use ##KHWiki- prefix. ## channels are for topical and reference channels, so I'm not entirely sure how Freenode's staff would feel about using it. Since these channels are considered unofficial in Freenode, it might have an impact on how readers see us.

3) Find another IRC network. I don't recommend this at all, it's just too complicated.
}}
{{KrytenKoro|How the heck exactly are we "off-topic" when wikia and all its babies are "on-topic"?

How is SEIWA acceptable but not KHWiki?

In any case, what would be the difficulty of switching networks? We could just register with rizon or something.}}
{{NinjaSheik|text=I don't if I can be much help when I tell you guys this, but since I've at the OP Wiki, they seem to have a special page on their wiki where they can chat. It can be access using the new wiki skin, but since use monobook, I don't really know how it's done. They link me too it, and I've only been there a few times. If possible, maybe creating a special page on this wiki can act as replacement for the Chat for the IRC. Sorry if I wasn't much helped.}}

{{Sove|time=04:30, 27 April 2012 (UTC)|roxastalk=
Q: "How the heck exactly are we "off-topic" when wikia and all its babies are "on-topic"?"<br>
A: Wikia is not only about gaming or other subjects Freenode considers unofficial.

Q: "How is SEIWA acceptable but not KHWiki?"<br>
A: Same thing as Wikia. While we only have gaming wikis there so far, SE has also released material considered on-topic. I wouldn't have managed to register the group if it was considered off-topic.

Q: "In any case, what would be the difficulty of switching networks? We could just register with rizon or something."<br>
A: Not exactly the moving, but many of us are using other Freenode channels as well, such as #FFWiki and very many wikis we can possibly affliate with are also using Freenode. It's pretty much about convenience.

@Ninja, you are talking about Wikia's WikiChat thing. We can't have that here since it's Wikia only. It's inferior to IRC in every aspect anyway.

E: Looks like people are overreacting and bombarding dax with questions about this. Learn the difference between 'just in case' and 'now', please. I just had to explain the situation to him.}}

{{17m|time=15:47, 27 April 2012 (UTC)|text= Option #1 seems to be the best solution to the problem. I mean, we ARE part of SEIWA, and putting "SEIWA" in our channel's name won't bring any harm. Besides, by adding SEIWA in the channel's name we're also promoting it, possibly attracting new wikis to join the group. It's a win-win situation if you ask me.}}
{{Keyblade0|time=01:45, 28 April 2012 (UTC)|normal=The first option should appeal to many people, mainly it's the easiest option and most convenient option available. Plus, it'll also be considered an offical channel in Freenode. Freenode (hopefully) should leave us alone in peace if we go along with this option.
 
The Second option is also convenient, but if it affects how other people see us in a negative way, then we shouldn't do it. Plus, they might drop the channel.

The Third option is not convenient at all. The admins would have to go through the process of registering it, registering their nicks, etc for themselves and the channel. Us, too. Then comes the rule changes in the new network. (if there is any)

First option is the best way to go.}}

{{Ark|time=21:30, 28 April 2012 (UTC)|XJR-9=I agree that a channel in the #seiwa namespace is the best solution to this. <b>We do not need to move immediately</b>, but it would be sensible to have a <i>contingency plan</i> in place, and I feel that a channel in the #seiwa namespace would work well.<br>
Moving network is not advisable, as it would require a large amount of extra work, and, inevitably, not everyone would move across. freenode is quite unique amongst IRC networks in terms of its configuration and role; I still believe that it is the best network for us.<br>I would suggest merging the Social and Noticeboard channels back into a single channel; having them separate really isn't necessary considering the size of our userbase, and I don't see it as being beneficial. The experimental -OPs channel can be dropped and not replaced.<br>
As I said, we do <b>not</b> need to move immediately. However, once we have decided on a name for the new channel, it may be sensible to set up a forward in the existing channels for a while so that all users attempting to join the old channels are automatically moved to the new channel, thus making a transition far easier. It would be necessary to do this before our current channels get dropped (<b>still an if, not a when</b>); a case of jumping before one may be pushed, if you will.<br>
It is quite easy for me or Sove to transfer all settings and options to a new channel, so it would <b>function identically to the current channels</b>, and the IRC page on this wiki can be easily updated.<br>
This really is not a problem, so please do not worry about it; there is absolutely no need.}}
{{Xion4ever|time=22:14, 29 April 2012 (UTC)|talktext=Just posting on here what I told Sove over the IRC...

I'm up for changing the name to #sewia-KHWiki- the first option. It is the most simple, least confusing, and relatively easy to change. Second option is meh. The third, to me anyways, is a last resort. I see no need to toss Freenode out entirely because of this. I can see their reasoning for wanting us to switch names...If needed though, as a final resort, I will side with switching to a new host.}}

==What the heck...==
{{TNE|time=14:16, 15 January 2015 (UTC)|shocktext=I'm an OP ''and'' a retired OP????}}
{{RikutheBloody|time={{User:Master Riku the Bloody/Sig1}} 14:23, 15 January 2015 (UTC)|text=Sorry. That was on me.}}

==Discord Channel Ops==
I'm looking for anyone who is interested in being a Channel Op on the KHWiki Discord Channel if anyone is interested please reply here. {{User:Byzantinefire/Sig}} 21:35, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

== Discord Channel oversight ==

Okay... dunno who set the permissions in this Wikia's Discord Server. But, letting anyone who joins edit the text and voice channels is a pretty big oversight. --[[User:Doggieboy9|Doggieboy9]] ([[User talk:Doggieboy9|talk]]) 23:50, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
:Through, it looks like its pretty much dead anyway. :-/ --[[User:Doggieboy9|Doggieboy9]] ([[User talk:Doggieboy9|talk]]) 00:08, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
:I don't really know why I am an admin over there but I edited some permissions just now. I think it's not surprising that the chats, both this and the IRC, are pretty dead considering the wiki activity these days. {{User:Pea14733/Sig}} 02:45, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
::Isn't TheSilentHero an operator there? In any case, does the KHWiki think it's beneficial to keep the Discord Channel? Or should the account be closed if there's zero activity there?--{{User:NinjaSheik/Sig}} 21:58, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
:::I am. I don't think there's any reason to shut down the channel. There's just not much activity lately, both there as on the IRC, and even the community stuff here is pretty dead. What I do want to discuss is whether we should take away Byz's operator power on the discord channel, seeing as he is blocked here and doesn't care anymore, as he said himself. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 22:29, 16 August 2017 (UTC)