Editing Forum:Wikia overhaul?

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{{Maggosh|YMX=I'd rather we skip the formalities. Well, after I made an edit to the Bleach wiki for the first time in months, I was directed to [[w:c:bleach:User blog:Yyp/New Wikia Skin:What we can expect?|this blog]]. Apparently Wikia's going to have an overhaul concerning changes, aesthetically and software-side, by the end of the year; one of which includes putting the name of the user who uploaded a picture in its caption. Which, in my opinion, is a bad idea. There's more [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Susan_Taylor/Experience_the_new_Wikia here], [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Your_First_Look_at_the_New_Wikia here], and [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Transition_guide here]. Just thought I should post this here so we could discuss what goes on. ''Merci beaucoup''.}}
==Discussion==
{{Uxie|time=04:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|text=I got that when I first edited other wikis. I am sick of it, y'know!}}

{{KrytenKoro|Every change they are listing pisses me off. Whatever they implement, I'm going to ask that we can opt out of.}}

{{LapisScarab|time=05:54, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|text=Ugh, really? Again? Have we ever used ''any'' of the little individual "improvements" Wikia has created (RTE comes to mind)? Why do they keep trying to "improve" a system that works fine? Somehow I doubt that there was an overwhelming demand for this, but I equally doubt that they will listen to the complaints. Not much I can add that hasn't already been said in those comments you showed us, maggosh. Lia Schiffer sums it up well.}}

{{Uxie|time=09:46, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|text=One of these days, Wikia will freeze after too much upgrades. They should just stop for now. y'know. Plus, the staff will just ignore things unless they are major (eg: bad freezes, vandals who trash more than three wikis etc).}}

{{17m|time=09:57, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|text= Ah, I got the news from Bleach Wikia too. I got a slow internet connection so it can be a nuisance sometimes, I just hope the upgrades don't make it worse for us, slow-internet-connection-users.}}
{{KrytenKoro|I took a look at the thing in action on the reddead and muppet wikis:
#The text of the article is compressed down to about 50% of its former width, '''before''' adding in images. It is ''very'' difficult to read. When you add in a normal-sized image (~250px), the text is confined in a column of less than 1/6 of the page's width.
#The image credits are both obnoxious, due to immature usernames, and extend the height of the images, disrupting any previous flow.
#The "last edited by" at the top of the page makes it look even more like a prototype wiki, rather than a polished, mature one. I've literally only seen crap like this on primitive wiki's.
#It looks like they've increased the spacing between lines from 1x to at least 1.5x, if not 2x.
#The pages now have a window for ''all'' images on the wiki, which seems inane. If I'm reading about Paopu Fruit, it is purely disruptive to have a 1/8 of my screen showing images of the Mysterious Figure or Monstro.
#They have a box at the bottom for what looks like will be Featured Wiki's.
#They now place the two most common categories at the top of the page. We have a lot of pages with maintenance categories, meaning they will almost always be those top two, and I'm sorry, but we're not going to abandon our tracking of problems for this.


I honestly cannot find anything positive coming out of this. And so here's my suggestion:

*'''Abandon wikia'''.

When the furor over ads first started, the transformers wiki, tfwiki.net, took a stance against both the utter disruption of their layouts for non-logged users, against wikia's lack of vetting for ads, which resulted in ads for let's call them "pleasure toys" on a wiki about ''children's'' toys, and on principle, against wikia's complete lack of "giving a shit" to the opinions of their unpaid workforce. They left wikia, kept their own layouts while finding ads that were actually relevant to their wiki, and have done nothing but succeed. We didn't follow them, but then, the layouts were only disrupted on the non-logged pages, and we just took that lump. Now wikia is demonstrating that they absolutely don't give a hoot about presenting encyclopedic content. We can either leave, or have a wiki that looks and will always look like a pile of shit.

Now, tfwiki was one of the biggest wiki's. They had even more editors than we do, and they were absolutely dedicated to their wiki. They are literally the best example of what a wiki ''should'' be, in terms of both content and culture. There is no guarantee that we could do this and succeed - it would take huge amounts of work, and honestly, our staff is dropping off like flies. But if wikia is unwilling to make this change optional, it's something we seriously need to consider.}}

{{17m|time=14:49, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|text= Does that mean.... we're gonna make a new KHWiki... right from the start? 

I agree that the changes are jokes, but other wikia doesn't like it either so maybe they'll get a lot of complaints and decided to stop the new upgrades.

Although, starting a new wiki doesn't seem so bad... But getting some editors for our wiki isn't easy, the reason tfwiki and bulbapedia have a lot of editors is because they were popular since, like, 19-ish? And Kingdom Hearts just started on 2002. Hey, I'm not saying we can't, but it's just gonna be hard to get a bunch of active, new, editors.

But, all-in-all, I'll stick to our community, whether we're moving to wiki or stay here.}}}
{{KrytenKoro|Oh got, no. We just transfer everything - articles, images, even the user pages and forums. The only work most editors would have to do is to change their bookmarks and reapply for an account at the new location. Of course, if you wanted to help with the transfer and with the selection of more appropriate ads, more power to you.}}


{{KrytenKoro|By the way, if you guys decide not to move in the end, we '''''need''''' to use this:

[http://disable.wikia.com/wiki/Picture_attribution]}}
{{TNE|time=15:07, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|angrytext=Posted four pleas to Wikia, three under my name and one under KHWiki's name. Now, I'm only doing this with the hopes that they'd listen, but in the event they don't, I have a few questions :

#We'll be hosting it on an external server. Don't we have to pay for it ? Where would we find one and how ?
#How would we develop the page from scratch until we achieve wiki format ?
#What happens to the KH-related wikis under our umbrella - KHFR and KHES ?}}
{{KrytenKoro|I've asked the tfwiki guys for a link to their discussion, because I can't find it, but basically, we'd set up an ads account with project wonderful or similar, and we would work to have targeted ads. The main problem with this is that we'd need more stuff about kingdom hearts or final fantasy to want to place ads here - webcomics, toys, etc. Transformers wiki had an easier time of that because its franchise is so long running.

For the wiki format - honestly, we'd need some coding experts to help, but it's not going to be simple html. We will still be a wiki, and have a wiki server, it will just be something like "khwiki.net" or similar. All links and coding would work the same - we would basically just straight up copy everything we have to another server, that's all.



Also - I've looked into some more, and some people are talking about it being possible to manipulate your css so that it shows the old version, or at least eliminates some of the massive problems. However, wikia is starting to say that "not only is it against the ToU to remove ads (which we knew, obviously), but also any of our nifty little features aren't they so darling". Basically, they will only allow us to modify our personal css's, not the wiki's.

And I say f'em. That doesn't make any legal sense, and they aren't providing us a service that we aren't giving back a hundred-fold, so it's not like they are the benefactors here anyway. If we decide to stay here, we use our layout - if they throw a fit, we can throw one right back.

That will probably result in our elimination, or at least the banning of whatever knucklehead is behind the scheme, but it is still an option.}}


{{KrytenKoro|For all mechanical purposes, they ''aren't'' under our umbrella. If they decide to stay, that's their decision, if they decide to come with us, I'm sure we can figure something out. After all, whatever targeted ads we could find would certainly apply to their readers as well.}}
{{TNE|time=15:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|sadtext=I'm speaking for KHFR and we're coming with KHW ! Of course, in the event that Wikia decides to be... well, I don't know what to say about this anymore.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Right. It's a lovely show of friendship, but ''if'' we decide to do this, and ''if'' you guys think it's a bad idea, there's absolutely no reason you would have to go down with the ship. I absolutely don't think it will fail, if we decide to do this, but just saying.}}
{{TNE|time=15:41, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|text=I'm aware of that. But just for all to see :

<pre>
an Ankoù dit :
*j'ai lu
*et je continue d'espérer qu'ils vont laisser le choix
*ça nous épargnerait bien des peines
*même si certains trucs vont forcément changer
*moi j'ai pas vraiment envie d'en arriver à devoir déménager le wiki
            Stryion                dit :
*Moi non plus, mais au pire...... Je prefererais demenager plutot que de survivre avec les "ameliorations"
an Ankoù dit :
*certes

I read, and I continue hoping that they'll keep the option.
it'd take away a lot of pain from us, even if some things are bound to change. 
I don't really feel like having to leave the wiki.

Me neither, but worse comes to worst, I'd rather move than survive with these "improvements".

True.
</pre>

Regardless of whether it's warranted or not for me to put this up, I'm pretty sure all of us would feel the same way back on the other side. If push comes to shove, we move.}}

{{17m|time=15:47, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|text= I'm not good at coding, but if you guys need any help, I'll try to help the best I can}}
{{JFHavoc|time=16:22, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|text=I wouldn't be too happy about all the stuff they're doing ''or'' leaving wikia, but at this point I support any decisions you guys make.

EDIT: Just checked it out on one of the Beta Wikis..... this sucks.}}
{{Dan da Man36|time=16:51, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|retro=Ugh... I've always disliked the look of the Muppets, Twilight, and GLee wikis... What's the point of having almost half the space on-screen empty? I'm with you guys, move before giving over to these changes...}}

{{ST|text=two rules with things that aren't broken: if it isn't broke,don't fix it, and and if it isn't broke DON"T BREAK IT!!!!}}
{{neumannz|time=16:59, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|text=If the situation is really intolerable, I support moving, but I recommend we get a viable plan together.

I find myself looking at the Homestar Runner Wiki[http://www.hrwiki.org], which I consider one of the highest quality and professional-looking fan-run wikis I've seen, especially outside of wikia. They have around 600 more articles than KHWiki. They have no ads, but have a fundraising drive a la Wikipedia. Something to consider, noting our relatively low article count.}}
{{KrytenKoro|I could definitely help out with some donations, but that's still a lot to ask, considering how young most of our reader-base is. I think targeted ads would be the optimum approach for this.}}
{{SC|time=19:15, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|scar=
<big><big><big><big><big><big>WHOA!!!</big></big></big></big></big></big>

Slow down. You can change your preferences. I was a beta for this new skin, and yes, it sucks. I know. It was horrible. I would have told somebody, but that was against the rules. However, just abanoding wikia? Not a good idea. Please, guys, check your preferences. See if you can change it back. I can, but I don't know if this is just for beta. Trust me, making this big overhaul isn't neccesarily a good idea.}}
{{TNE|time=19:22, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|blahtext=SC, it'll only happen if they're gonna make it an option. But from the look of those posts, they aren't. That's why we're flustered !}}
{{SC|time=19:24, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|cag=I've already used it (trust me, it's BAD.), and when I changed it, all 3 skins were available for use.}}
{{KrytenKoro|SC, you've got to remember that this wiki isn't just for us. We have readers, and this reformat will make our articles, to a one, unreadable. Added to that is the fact that central wikia has said that it is ''against their rules'' for us to remove or modify any of these space-sucking add-ons (not just the ads, which is understandable), and you've got our wiki being unreadable to anyone without an account (at least 60% of our readership, if not 90%).

On the Digimon Wiki, I just had what I think was wikia stuff neutering the ToC bar that you have on the left - and they did it without any real knowledge of what we do there, reducing it to six total options out of almost forty, and removing links to the actual main content.

According to central wiki, your situation is purely temporary. This change will be mandatory across all wikis, and they are phasing out monaco completely. Monobook will remain, I think, but gee, there goes our site theme.

Central wikia's constant attitude is one deleterious to content, and focusing on becoming a magazine or advertising insert, rather than an encyclopedia. If the outcry against this won't pull their heads out their bums, then there's no reason to believe that the next revision won't be any less catastrophic.}}
{{Bluer|20:32, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|I'm happy with my Monobook, thanks.}}
{{KrytenKoro|We all like monobook, I think, but we're not allowed to use it as the default skin. Meaning that, depending on whether they keep monobook, we may be able to keep reading the articles, while visitors will not.

Plus, our background and wiki image is incompatible with monobook as it is, so we can either be compatible for one or the other.}}
{{MM841|21:41, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|I have to say, th new wikia looks horrible. I'm with Blue: Monobook rocks.<br>I'm not sure what I think about abandoning wikia, but if the community wants it, then I won't complain.}}

{{The Inexistent|text='''I'm late getting here, but, wow, did we just realize this was happening?  They announced this like a month ago.  Anyway, I protested it back then, and, since they refuse to make it optional, ''we are screwed'''''}}

{{The Inexistent|KRCCFNF='''Oh, and I volunteer to go down with the ship...  I have nothing to lose anyway...'''}}

{{The Inexistent|sword='''Wow, third message in a row... but, anyway, I know for sure that [[User:Blixna waka|blix]] could figure out how to make it look wikiish if we would move...'''}}

{{Keyblade0|time= 23:41, September 28, 2010|hood=(What!?) People, people people, please let’s all

<big><big><big><big><big><big>Calm Down.</big></big></big></big></big></big>

Yeah, the new things SUCK, but we’ve been through worse, right? So, let’s all calm down and hope/pray that they’ll not go through with this.}}

{{The Inexistent|angry='''Don't you understand?  It's happening no matter what.  All I want is for it to be optional!'''}}

{{Keyblade0|time= 00:09, September 29, 2010|shocked=What!?!?(again) Well, we’re just going to have to bear it. If not, then we can move. (and possibly lose some of he work/progress we worked so hard on getting)}}
{{JFHavoc|time=01:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=I actually don't think we've been through anything as bad as this, Keyblade. We wouldn't ''have'' to abandon Wikia if they weren't doing this. The brought it upon themselves. (And we still don't know for sure if we really ''are'' leaving).}}
{{TNE|time=09:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)|angrytext=@SilverCrono : The three skins are available ''now'' but they won't be available starting November. [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog%3ASannse%2FImportant_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look See this]. NOW.

So since they are removing the option and not listening to us, our only option is to move. If this ship goes down, I shall go down with it.}}
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-{{Maggosh|YMX=I'd rather we skip the formalities. Well, after I made an edit to the Bleach wiki for the first time in months, I was directed to [[wikia:bleach:User blog:Yyp/New Wikia Skin:What we can expect?|this blog]]. Apparently Wikia's going to have an overhaul concerning changes, aesthetically and software-side, by the end of the year; one of which includes putting the name of the user who uploaded a picture in its caption. Which, in my opinion, is a bad idea. There's more [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Susan_Taylor/Experience_the_new_Wikia here], [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Your_First_Look_at_the_New_Wikia here], and [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Transition_guide here]. Just thought I should post this here so we could discuss what goes on. ''Merci beaucoup''.}}
+{{Maggosh|YMX=I'd rather we skip the formalities. Well, after I made an edit to the Bleach wiki for the first time in months, I was directed to [[w:c:bleach:User blog:Yyp/New Wikia Skin:What we can expect?|this blog]]. Apparently Wikia's going to have an overhaul concerning changes, aesthetically and software-side, by the end of the year; one of which includes putting the name of the user who uploaded a picture in its caption. Which, in my opinion, is a bad idea. There's more [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Susan_Taylor/Experience_the_new_Wikia here], [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Your_First_Look_at_the_New_Wikia here], and [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Transition_guide here]. Just thought I should post this here so we could discuss what goes on. ''Merci beaucoup''.}}
 ==Discussion==
 {{Uxie|time=04:21, September 28, 2010 (UTC)|text=I got that when I first edited other wikis. I am sick of it, y'know!}}
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 {{Keyblade0|time= 00:09, September 29, 2010|shocked=What!?!?(again) Well, we’re just going to have to bear it. If not, then we can move. (and possibly lose some of he work/progress we worked so hard on getting)}}
 {{JFHavoc|time=01:30, September 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=I actually don't think we've been through anything as bad as this, Keyblade. We wouldn't ''have'' to abandon Wikia if they weren't doing this. The brought it upon themselves. (And we still don't know for sure if we really ''are'' leaving).}}
-{{TNE|time=09:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)|angrytext=@SilverCrono : The three skins are available ''now'' but they won't be available starting November. [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog%3ASannse%2FImportant_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look <font color="red">See this</font>]. NOW.
+{{TNE|time=09:24, September 29, 2010 (UTC)|angrytext=@SilverCrono : The three skins are available ''now'' but they won't be available starting November. [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog%3ASannse%2FImportant_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look See this]. NOW.
 So since they are removing the option and not listening to us, our only option is to move. If this ship goes down, I shall go down with it.}}
-{{The Inexistent|sad='''Well, here are all of the wikis lost to shoutwiki already [http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Category:English].  If we would move, I wouldn't recommend shoutwiki, as it loads like crap...'''}}
-{{neumannz|time=15:31, September 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=Looks like they've gotten started. I already see the "added by" caption on images...}}
-{{ST|text=i'm starting to see it too, and i must say...i don't like it}}
-{{KKD|time=[[User:KingdomKeyDarkside|KingdomKeyDarkside]] 01:28, September 30, 2010 (UTC)|link=Before we just get up and leave, we should make sure that we have no other option. We should do as much as we can to try and either:
-*Support reversal of this crap.
-*OR Find some way to opt out of this change.
-If we can't do either of those, we're screwed. There are tons of petitions on Wikia Central about this [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance] <Like that. Support them as much as we can, and see if it does anything.}}
-{{Ym|time=19:15, October 1, 2010 (UTC)|text=I say move. Wikia won't really care what we say. ShoutWiki may load slowly, but at least it isn't making unnecessary changes. My opinion is move, but if you guys decide to stay, I'm all for it.}}
-{{The Inexistent|KRCCFNF='''@KKD, they keep asking for feedback and everyone says ''no'', but then they don't listen,  and that means we can't opt out.  I still think having my <s>useless hacker</s> friend figure out how to manipulate the CSS and HTML to get it to look the way it does now would be the best option.'''}}
-{{Galexgan|time=22:58, October 3, 2010 (UTC)|terra2= Wow, I'm really really late to this but, I'm up for following the wiki if it moves. I don't want to stick with a wiki that's gonna constantly change it's layout for the worse over and over and over again causing mayhem and uproar EVERY time. On the topic of ads, Final Fantasy XIV is pretty awesome looking, watched the seven minute long video I got in my email from Square Members, it was epic is all I can say. Not sure how adds work and all, just assuming that we can get a FFXIV add to help and RE:Coded comes out soon-ish so there's another add. FF and KH appear to be extremely long running series so we should have plenty of adds from them, and if they aren't enough Disney is always advertising something. On the topic of layout, if we switched to become our own wiki or whatever and we had people great with HTML code we might not only be able to move and keep things the way we like it but actually improve the layout and other features to look and work alot smoother.  EDIT: I also thought about it but because of the benfits that come with social comunication between members such as cameraderie then moving and getting great coders to help improve the wiki we could make user talk pages so much better, perhaps removing them from the "My Home" area every time one get's edited but perhaps create another feature such as "social" or something that shows updates to talk pages and forums, even perhaps adding another button like the "My Home" area to narrow what's being shown down to what pages your following. Another feature that would help editors welcome new members to the wiki would be a feature on the main page or something that lists members who have joined within the past 7 days, those people then being removed from the New Member list after those 7 days. Just brainstorming ideas.}}
-{{SannseTalk|time=21:28, October 6, 2010 (UTC)|text=Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and say that the new look is now available for everyone to try as a preference.  I hope you'll give it a go... including the options to theme the wiki and make it fit your topic.  If you want help with that, then please let me know.  And I hope you will all decide to stay with us here at Wikia}}
-{{Maggosh|YMX=Well, Sannse, seeing as you didn't read the previous posts, allow me to summarize;
-*Everyone either tried or saw the new look.
-*Everyone hates it, due to its space-wasting abilities and other issues.
-*Everyone wants you to either get rid of it or make it an optional skin.
-*If it isn't made optional, the wiki's moving.}}
-{{KujaRhapsodos|time=00:36, October 7, 2010 (UTC)|text=I feel bad for all the wikia staff who worked very hard on Oasis, but it just doesn't fit. It's ugly and impractical. All the older wikis have been strutured to fit Monaco and Monobook. To change now means that a lot of wikis are now not nice at all to look at. I don't understand what was so terrible about Monaco that you had to change it. We lived with Monaco for a good few years, and saw no problems with it. We do, however, see a lot of problems with Oasis, that beta testers DID point, but that weren't fixed. Why the need to change? Instead of solving problems, it created more.}}
-I got a request for some advise on hosting elsewhere, so I'll just iterate over a few notes:
-* I'll spare you the bias on how I came up with the ShoutWiki name, the group broke apart, some members became involved in what seamed to be shady business, then a new ShoutWiki group came out from that and swiped the ShoutWiki name... Right now ShoutWiki has a single server, they're thinking of getting a "backup" server, but there is absolutely no proper setup for good performance and fallback on ShoutWiki, and they're already having performance issues. I mentioned that a wiki like Narutopedia moving there would probably kill them from the traffic, though this wiki is only about 1/4 the traffic as the Narutopedia so it's not as heavy, but in any case performance , stability, and the reliability of the service on ShoutWiki doesn't look good.
-* I would recommend self-hosting usually, but I don't know if there is anyone on this wiki capable of doing that on a level that keeps the wiki running well.
-** I have mentioned that on the chance that the Narutopedia does move I'd be willing to host any other related wiki along with it. But that's dependent on a few things that could cut that short (if the wiki actually decides to move, and more importantly, what my boss even thinks of the idea of hosting wiki when we have a big project -- which I was hired to create -- going into private beta, which is the more problematic thing). But I'm not sure about Kingdom Hearts as it's not so much a related wiki, I was focused around Animanga wiki as a network of them, so even if the wiki does come along, it would probably be dragged along with ideas focused around on the animanga category wiki and primarily the Narutopedia. For most things that might not mean much, besides having less priority on custom features, except for the skin. Part of self-hosting involves experimenting with various ad formats and trying to figure out the best way to get back the money needed to pay for the servers and profit the company hosting the wiki (otherwise the company looses money anyways, since it has to pay the employees spending company time working on the wiki). Trying to do this on different skins at the same time makes for a lot more work, so any other wiki would probably be stuck with the skin and experiments in advertisement placement that the Narutopedia decides on, which I'm expecting to probably be Monaco in an experiment [http://c.imagehost.org/0575/Naruto_Uzumaki_Narutopedia_the_Naruto_Encyclopedia_Wiki_1286057666431.png like this] with a 300px ad above the infobox, or a banner ad above the header (so far those seam to be the most popular ideas in the feedback).
-* Side note, Watchlist seams to be broken, I'm no longer getting e-mail updates about changes to watched pages, you may have to poke me on my talkpage once in awhile.
-:~ '''NOTASTAFF''' [[wikia:animanga:User:Dantman|Dantman]]<sup>([[User talk:Dantman|Local Talk]] &#8285; [[wikia:animanga:User talk:Dantman|Animanga Talk]])</sup> 14:45, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
-::Dantman, are you at all familiar with how tfwiki.net went about doing targeted ads, etc.?[[User:KrytenKoro|<small>Why don't you try it just to see</small>]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>what happens?</small>]] 16:09, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
-:::No, but you're talking about using Project Wonderful right? I knew about Project Wonderful a long time ago, I even signed up for an account (I can't remember where I put ads though, probably dead sites anyways). It's a nice idea, it's not "targeted" -- targeted ads usually refer to contextual ads, like how AdSense looks at the content on your page to guess what the best ad to serve is -- it's "direct" advertising, where people directly purchase ad space from you instead of using broad AdNetworks. The only issue is that it relies on having people visiting your site who are willing to purchase ads, or advertisers that pay attention to Project Wonderful, it's possible to end up in a situation sometimes where there is no advertisements coming from it. But mixed with other ideas it's lovely.
-:::So far the first experiment I think I'm leaning towards right now if we did move, would be a small block of Project Wonderful ads below the navigation box in the sidebar (2-3 ads high, 2 ads wide, small banners, maybe one wider banner at higher price), as well as a 300px ad in a right sidebar above an infobox area, if there is no right sidebar on the page then instead either a banner ad above the page title header, or perhaps in an island above the whole content area. I might consider making those banner or box ads project wonderful ads with a minimum price which fallback to advertising networks when there is no advertisement, which should allow a fair box with revenue coming from advertising networks but which allows direct advertisers who are willing to pay about as much as we get from the broad ad networks from an ad area to place their advertisement inside a page instead. I've also tossed around the idea of a separate instance for pages in certain categories, like "Video Games", allowing for a directly targeted ad on video game articles, which could be an enticing space for a store that sells those games to want to take over.
-:::A lot of different ideas have been tossed around on the Narutopedia and elsewhere and gone through my head; Play-Asia affiliation. Hulu videos (while I hate hulu, 3rd party sites that embed videos get 10% of Hulu's cut of the advertising profits from videos which are watched on the 3rd party site), various ad networks, Project Wonderful, bg takeover ads (not favored), partnerships with relevant companies, donations, etc... ~ '''NOTASTAFF''' [[wikia:animanga:User:Dantman|Dantman]]<sup>([[User talk:Dantman|Local Talk]] &#8285; [[wikia:animanga:User talk:Dantman|Animanga Talk]])</sup> 18:12, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
-I found the [[MediaWiki:Oasis.css|page that stores the Oasis crap]].  Why don't we try messing around with it?  {{The Inexistentsig}}
-:It's actually [[MediaWiki:Wikia.css]], but the ToU prohibits you from doing just about anything to the look of the wiki. ~ '''NOTASTAFF''' [[wikia:animanga:User:Dantman|Dantman]]<sup>([[User talk:Dantman|Local Talk]] &#8285; [[wikia:animanga:User talk:Dantman|Animanga Talk]])</sup> 01:26, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
-<_< I'm in a dream... impossible... all (KH ?) wiki... (I'm from Fr wiki) --[[User:Yosh93|Yosh93]] 12:59, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
-{{The Inexistent|angry='''WHY HAVE THESE DISUSSIONS DIED DOWN?  THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF GUYS!!!'''}}
-{{KrytenKoro|We started a continuation topic a while ago.}}
-* I hate the Wikia New Look. I don't evemn contribute here but I'm talking here cause I want people to know I hate the new skin. In fact, I even know people who want to vandal when they see a new skin, and UC's are ever so hard to block with their changing IP
-addresses.
-So have you guys find a place to move to yet?--[[User:Hikaruyami-having fun*|Hikaruyami-having fun*]] 06:13, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
-[[Forum:Where will we go?|We're working on it.]]{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}06:21, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
-{{Falcos|angry=Okay, I don't know if this is the right place to lodge this complaint, but I use two computers depending on where I am currently, one with a small screen, and one with a large one, and I'd like to point out that the new skin doesn't fit readably on either of them. Now, perhaps I'm more annoyed then I should be with it, as I'm used to the old skin, but I was giving it a week's trial, and I discovered, coming onto the wiki to edit (which I normally enjoy) was a chore with Oasis. It is missing several features that I have become accustomed to, is confusing to navigate and to read, and gives me migranes just trying to look at it. Furthermore, there are enough trolls and vandals on this wiki, and I think the gallery thing just screams "vandal bait". I am aware that it probably took a lot of work to design, but I'd like to ask if the people who designed it have ever done any editing. Because my guess would be not. Also, the toolbar at the bottom of the screen (which I haven't worked out how to get rid off, if it is at all possible) makes my bottom-of-the-range computer overheat and die from trying to load it. Also, the "more from wikia" feature, which I thought was reasonabley sized and placed before, is annoyingly sized, and placed. Also, the "added by" function is annoying, as it draws attention away from the article. Sorry, I got a bit rant-y there. In short, this skin is a bad idea, and while I don't doubt that some people like it, (I can think of worse things people have liked) I think the majority of people won't. Not sure what I was trying to achieve, besides throwing in my two cents.}}
-We're using [[Forum:@&%&*@%&$@&*$%|this forum]] more for the complaints directed at the Oasis skin, but you can also take it up with the wikia staff<!--My adivce, stick to the forum. They won't listen either way, and we've tormented Sannse enough.-->.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}01:55, October 29, 2010 (UTC)