Editing Forum:Where will we go?/Archive

{{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}}

==Discussion==
We could move to another website altogether, like how wow.wikia.com moved to [http://www.wowwiki.com/Portal:Main wowwiki.com]. --{{SilverCrono/Sig}} 19:51, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
::Okay, but do you have any details on how we'd do that?[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 20:49, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
:::No, I actually don't. I was thinking we could ask them how they did it, if I wasn't shot down. Sorry, that was just a suggestion :/ --{{SilverCrono/Sig}} 20:59, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
 
Like I said [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Just_an_idea] here, we could create our own website.{{User:Keyblade0/Sig}}

{{ShardofTruth|time=21:52, October 26, 2010 (UTC)|talk=Okay, we really need a discussion section on this page for constructive ideas and critism.
At first I think every active Staff member should post his or her honest opinion on this matter, because they have the most influence (and control) on the wiki. Unspoken subjects will only cause bad blood, which is not needed in this situation.

I for myself think that the current standard of the wiki can't be maintained with the coming changes nor be reobtained like [http://dragonage.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Project_Flemeth:_Shapeshifting_the_Wikia%27s_Look Dragon Age wikia] is trying to do, simply because essential customization is taken out of our hands.
Bluerfn on the other hand thinks different about this, so I hope he will write something on this matter here.

I didn't vote on a moving option yet, because I simply don't know which would be best. Were really need validated information on this topic.
The reborn [http://www.wowpedia.org/Portal:Main WoWWiki] is hosted on [http://www.curse.com/articles/world-of-warcraft-news/857376.aspx Curse] now, an option that is not open for us I think. We could cooperate with a Square Enix portal or a big role playing portal instead. But I don't have connections to any of them.

All I heard from ShoutWiki is that they have only have a few servers which even caused crashs [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase after popular wikis like the Simpsons moved]. I don't know if that's true though. [http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Wikia%27s_New_Look This thread] of the Naruto wikia has some answers in regards of ShoutWiki. All in all I don't think ShoutWiki ist a good alternative at the moment.

@Monobook skin: Will this skin really be available after Oasis is the only option and could we write a stylesheet for it?}}
{{KrytenKoro|I'm guessing nobody's contacted shoutwiki or wikkii yet. I have barely any internet access, so I can't do it; one of the other staff will need to. Please ask what would be entailed in moving, and what kind of setup they have (servers, customizing to monaco, etc.)

There ARE a few things from Oasis that would be useful, like the features being recoded to be keyboard-only accessible. If we move, we need to have a project dedicated to suggesting helpful css features, and implementing them.}}

There is still Monobook after Monaco is gone. They are just keeping Monobook. If we move, we won't have Monaco because that is wikia exclusive. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 21:03, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

There has to be a way we can work it out without moving. [[User:LightRoxas|LightRoxas]] 21:09, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

While polls (basically votes) don't solve jack, I still want the wiki to be a good place for readers, not for... wait, it's not really good for anyone...  {{The Inexistentsig}}

:Although they are keeping monobook, it will not be the automatic skin, so our pages would still look like shit. Monaco's features can almost certainly be replicated on any css we make.
:Also, please don't place comments in the voting section. We've gone back and forth on thus forever without reaching consensus; we all know what each other will say. At this point, we need to be focusing on how we proceed from our discussions.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 22:37, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, 1, ShoutWiki loads like crap.  Not good.  Wikii or whatever may be fine, but, as Shard said above, it may be lacking that ability to customize.  And second, what would happen to kingdomhearts.wikia.com?  If we were to delete all articles and images on the site, Wikia would see it was vandalism and revert everything back to life, which, would, in effect, create two Kingdom Hearts wikis, and as mentioned before in another thread by Kryten, Google and other search engines will tend to side with Wikia and Wikipedia.  That solves nothing.  What the hell are we going to do?  If we are voting, wouldn't it be better to give the staff the ability to vote twice, thus doubling thier power?  Two votes for ShoutWiki is better than one.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

:We wouldn't delete anything. This wiki would still exist, and it would still be open for anyone to edit.  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 22:49, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
:To clarify, google will side with wikia originally, but as we continue to edit at the new address, and this one continues to stagnate, we will begin getting top billing again. Also, I think Shard was talking about Oasis lacking the ability to customize, since wikkii lets you do whatever you want to your wikis, for free.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 23:12, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

::Exactly my point.  Even if we all leave, a whole new batch of users will take over.  Eventually, they will adopt an order that will keep this place running, so, in other words, they will be on par with us... ''if'' we move.  oh, and could a staff member sticky this thread, please?  Oh, and Kryten, can you define "whatever you want", please. {{The Inexistentsig}}
:Unlikely. ''We'' are the ones who keep the wiki running so fast - if the current community leaves, it is highly unlikely that anyone who moves in will be anywhere near as driven as us. After all, if they were such hard workers, they'd be here already, wouldn't they?[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 23:35, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
::wikkii: [http://wikkii.com/wiki/Features], [http://wikkii.com/wiki/FAQ], [http://wikkii.com/forums/index.php?topic=248.0], [http://hub.wikkii.com/wiki/Hub#For_Advanced_Users].
::I am seeing a significant problem in [http://wikkii.com/forums/index.php?topic=223.0 interwiki linking]. This could be solved in several ways, if wikkii remained unwilling to add the entries to the interwiki database (don't know why they wouldn't, though) - 
*Create a [[:Template:w]] that replaced the <nowiki>[[wikipedia:X|X]]</nowiki> with <nowiki>{{w|X}}</nowiki>, and design a bot with a task being to add that everywhere.
*Do the same without a bot.
*Replace all the interwiki links with direct html links, with or without a bot.
::I'd much prefer that they edit the interwiki database, though, since that seems much, much quicker.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 23:35, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

::::Eh. Reading through some of their tech support forums (granted, they are a year old), it is starting to look like wikkii might be lacking quite a few features that we require simply to function as we do now. We ''really'' need a staff member to contact them and see what they have working. Specifically, remember to ask about favicon, interwiki linking, checkuser, allowing edits from ips and allowing editors to register, uploading images, uploading .ogg, .gif, .png, full wiki backups, namespaces, etc. This is beginning to look far inferior to anything could put up ourselves, despite what they advertise.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 23:35, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
:::::Followup: It seems that most of these features can be reenabled if we upgrade to [http://wikkii.com/wiki/Advanced_Hosting Advanced Hosting]. ([http://wikkii.com/wiki/Advanced_Hosting_Rules Rules]) We would need someone code literate to handle things, though, and we'd have to wait until we'd been there for a month to upgrade.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 23:39, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

One question about Shoutwiki and Wikii, will our editcounts be reset? I hope this doesn't make me seem like a person that cares too much about editcount, but I'm still curious about it. {{User:Chitalian8/Sig}} 

@Inexistent: Well, that's certainly a risk. We are basically assuming that as a community that's been established we'd do a better job at adding content, staying up to date, etc, and that we'd stand above anyone who takes over here. It's possible that won't be the case, but it'll still be easier for us to do our business somewhere else. --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 23:27, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

You guys understand that if we ''do'' move, we'll have to delete this wiki, or else erase all of its content? Because if you just leave it here to gather dust, it will start to spoil. As in, people will come in and try to take control. There will be no one to moniter vandalism, all that stuff. This is still the Kingdom hearts Wiki representing Wikia. If we're leaving, then we should either delete this wiki and all of its content or appoint new administrators who are willing to stay behind and won't whine about the new theme that ''isn't'' Monaco. Just saying. --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 01:30, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

:But Lego, there's the thing.  Wikia will not delete a wiki unless it was abandoned at its birth.  And, as I mentioned above, complete and total deletion would be undone.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

We can't delete the wiki. At any rate, the staff will have to maintain some presence for a period of time, to keep vandalism down and to keep an eye on new editors. If people want to continue on here despite the move, they can, and we might eventually promote new staff to take over.  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 01:36, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

In that case we should probably formally get together a group of people who will stay behind and keep this wiki from going to the dogs. I volunteer--[[User:ShadowsTwilight|'''<span style="color:#000000">Shadows</span>''']][[User talk:ShadowsTwilight|'''<span style="color:#505050">Twilight</span>''']][[File:Χ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS.png|50px]] 01:42, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
:...Doesn't keeping people here to sync the wikis defeat the purpose of moving to a new wiki, and make it impossible for the new wiki to catch up in the search engines? Yes, it's the Kingdom Hearts wiki representing Wikia, and Wikia made it a shit-hole. Which is why we have a ''new'' site, which will be very clearly '''not''' a shit-hole.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 02:10, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

::Point. Although I didn't say anything about keeping them synched or keeping this one up to date. We would still need to be available to editors who want to take over, should the event arise.  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 02:14, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
:::EDIT CONFLICT!!!Who said anything about syncing them, i just don't want this wiki to fall to vandalism, i don't care if it gets updated or not--[[User:ShadowsTwilight|'''<span style="color:#000000">Shadows</span>''']][[User talk:ShadowsTwilight|'''<span style="color:#505050">Twilight</span>''']][[File:Χ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS.png|50px]] 02:17, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
:....''why''? What's the point of upkeep if it's just going to stagnate in a different manner? Seriously, you guys looked at tfwiki.net when I first mentioned it, right? The original wikia site has stagnated completely, and the edits added are worthless. It's vandalism under another name, basically.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 02:23, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

If you don't want to, that's fine with us--[[User:ShadowsTwilight|'''<span style="color:#000000">Shadows</span>''']][[User talk:ShadowsTwilight|'''<span style="color:#505050">Twilight</span>''']][[File:Χ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS.png|50px]] 02:28, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
{{KKD|time=04:54, October 27, 2010 (UTC)|link=I haven't voted yet, just because I'm not sure what the best option is. Sure, the new skin is (for lack of a better word) manure, but it just feels wrong leaving before giving the new look a full-on chance. Sure, wikia staff has done bullcrap to accommodate all the complaining users, and it may seem like they don't care, but I still think we need to give them a fair chance with this thing. Give them time to make the new look full-fledged, and then they can start making changes to make it work better. Leaving on November 3rd is just silly, and over-reactive to something that's barely taken place. It's like having worked somewhere for years and then just up and leaving when the office gets re-painted and the computers are replaced with crappy ones, when the only other workplaces have the paint color you like, and you've heard they work better, but the computers are slow as hell and it's impossible to do all the paperwork (coding) they require. It's like preemptively bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki before Pearl Harbor even got attacked. I know most of you are going to disagree with me, and that's fine. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, even if it gets ignored. We should see this through to '''''January 1st, 2011'''''. No more, no less. If nothing's better, fine. We leave. If it's good enough, we stay.<small> please don't start yelling at me...</small>}}
{{Dan da Man36|time=13:49, October 27, 2010 (UTC)|halloween=I agree with KKD, that's why I haven't voted either.}}

{{The Inexistent|fury='''I completely agree with you KKD, many of us do.  ''But'', we have had the ability to use the new skin for weeks.  And I, for one, have been using it, and ''that'' is why I completely support the idea of scrapping it right now.'''}}

{{Xalxe|text=Hi.  New user here.  I don't feel nearly qualified enough to vote, but I still wanted to throw my hat into the ring.

The new skin sucks.  Plain and simple.  I can't stand it; it has so many technical issues that I honestly am considering abandoning any wikis that I regularly visit that still run Wikia.  It's that bad. (I would like to note here that I am actually typing this in Notepad so I don't have to deal with the shitty editing in Wikia.

I understand that this is not KHWiki, SimsWiki, or any other individual wiki's fault.  I enjoy the information I get from these sources.  I just find that the tech issues make reading unbearable.

I support a move, for this an all wikis.  However, I have no idea where to.  I do not know enough about any plan to voice a coherent opinion.  However, I will support any move plan that has decent logic behind it.

(If you choose to respond to this, please let me know on my talk.)}}
KKD's right. Give the wiki a few months before we up and pack all of our bags. I have only been using it for two weeks, and, with proper customization, I have grown used to it. I still prefer Monaco, but Monaco will be gone. I'm not going to whine about it, as countless people are doing. Another thing, this forum and vote is a little secluded from the community, why not move it to the front page? Or put the news in flashing letters on the page, maybe even its own box or something. Anyway, if we do move the wiki, I'll want to continue editing here as well as the new one. Also, what about the IRC channel? If we're splitting from wikia, it can't exactly be called ''#'''wikia'''-kingdomhearts''. --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 19:34, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Unregistered contibutors and readers can't customize it though, can they? It may suck for us as editors, but they don't even have the ability to improve it if they wanted to. EDIT And this isn't like "preemptively bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki". We're ditching Wikia after giving them multiple chances to try and fix things, not attacking them for no reason.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}00:32, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Don't forget, they're still working out kinks. I'm not saying that I like the new skin, but I'm just saying to give it a little time. I'm actually getting used to it, and although it's not the same, it still functions. I know it screwed up a lot of articles, but again, I'm agreeing with the others and saying that we should not move just yet. [[File:Way to the Dawn KHII.png|20px]]'''<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User:Chitalian8|<span style="color:#C00000;">Chitalian</span>]][[User talk:Chitalian8|<span style="color:3300FF;">8</span>]]</span>'''[[file:Wayward Wind KHBBS.png|20px]] 00:44, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:"'''I have only been using it for two weeks, and, with proper customization, I have grown used to it.'''" - which is why it is still unacceptable. Whatever skin we have, it must be accessible to ALL users. If Oasis can only be tolerated by those who have logged in and played with it, then it has failed not only as a skin, but in its own stated purpose.
:"''KKD's right.''" - KKD is absolutely wrong in everything he said. The release of the skin means it is ''done'', not that they have just produced it. The skin has been out for over a month now, and the truly game-breaking problems are not only not addressed, but wikia has stated that they REFUSE to address them. If you guys want to "give it time", then use it now, with no customizations whatsoever. Get used to what our readers will actually see. Quite frankly, your opinion on whether the skin is acceptable or not is worthless if you have not been doing this.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 00:50, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
::Completely right in response to ''my'' post.
::As for your comment on releasing the skin means it's done, that isn't true. Wikia cotinued to make additions to Monaco even in its final moments, so you can't say that what we're getting ''now'' is what we're sticking with forever. Heck, they might make changes that will become suitable for KH Wiki, and we'll have been long gone by then. Then we'll want to move everything ''back''. Just saying. --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 01:02, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:::"'''and the truly game-breaking problems are not only not addressed, but wikia has stated that they REFUSE to address them.'''"[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 01:06, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:[http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Wikia_Transition READ THIS NOW, ALL OF YOU. EVERY SINGLE WORD.][[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 01:25, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'm a little off topic here, but has anyone contacted bulbapedia, SmashWiki, and WoWWiki yet?  {{The Inexistentsig}}
:Nope. Somebody should, or else we'll all be here until Nov. 3rd, yelling and arguing to each other. I would say we all need to calm down, but at this point, I believe I would get flamed. Calm down, guys, we can work this out without biting heads off. We don't need to get ignorant like a YouTube commenter or something :/ --{{SC/Sig|01:53, October 28, 2010 (UTC)}}
::Lurking Bulbapedian here. We don't use Wikia AFAIK. [[Special:Contributions/124.188.171.7|124.188.171.7]] 10:13, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Personaly, I think Kryten or Bluer should be the ones to contact them.  I mean, you can argue with me all you want about this, but Kryten is practically the glue that holds the wiki together.  And Bluer, well, he is basically the oldest active admin.  {{The Inexistentsig}}
I am Megatron1 from SSB Wiki and the person who assisted with many moves. I am here because Miles might not respond. Simply use [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Export Special:Export] to get pages in files and save those fails. Use Special:Import on your next Wiki host in order to upload those files. If this is not clear, feel free to ask me to explain.--<span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|20px|:p]] 02:19, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

This was Miles' response:--'''<span style="font-family:papyrus">[[User:LapisScarab|<span style="color:midnightblue;">Lapis</span>]]<span style="color:black;">Scarab</span></span>''' 02:22, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

:I would say get in contact with the NIWA folks through [http://www.niwanetwork.org/contact.html the first email address on this page].  NIWA would probably be glad to have you. (I personally didn't do much of the moving work, but I'm sure the NIWAns would be glad to help.) [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:17, 27 October 2010 (EDT)
::No need to contact us...we've already found you! MWAHAHA!
::Er, anyways...I'm Neo, the owner of [http://starfoxwiki.org/Lylat_Wiki Lylat Wiki], and one of the NIWA staff. I'm here to say that there are options for leaving. If you do go independent, the NIWA would be pleased to affiliate with you and get you into our community. However, you would not be able to join, as you are not a Nintendo related wiki. But don't let that discourage you! If you ask around, you may even be able to get hosting from one of our members. Plus, I'm sure our members would be glad to help you leave Wikia and set up shop somewhere else. They're really cool like that, and they'd be willing to lend their services to you for sure! Like I said, though, we'd be glad to affiliate with you and give you traffic if you become independent. If you have any further questions, feel free to contact me. Just send an email to jfolvarcik[at]gmail[dot]com and I'll be happy to get back to you ASAP. Best of luck with your situation!&mdash;[[User:Neo of ZW|Neo]][[Talk:Neo of ZW|(talk)]] 03:28, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:::Also, you may want to change somethings in the wiki, becuase people may still come in and change pages you already exported. [http://starfox.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We're_merging_with_Lylat_Wiki!_All_users_report!#Merger_Proceedings see this page] and [http://starfoxwiki.org/User_talk:Blue_Ninjakoopa#email this one] for more info. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 04:19, October 28, 2010 (UTC).

Thank you guys for this info.  It really helps.  And, a little off topic, but can someone remove the heading?  I'm only asking this because, if you all remember what happened on the Twitter forum, we were constantly adding new headings, and the comments left in the previous headings were left unread.  That should definitaly not be done to this thread.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

So what's gonna happen? Will we all move to somewhere new and start from scratch, or stay here and somehow work it out? If we're all moving, I'm going too. This wiki has some great people on it (Trois, Kryten, Lapis, Azul, etc.) It would be very difficult to reconstruct a 2000+ page wiki from nothing, but if we all work together, I'm sure we have a shot. But Final Fantasy wiki is staying, so what's the final verdict with us? Mar 21:56, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:Well, you don't have to move and start from scratch. You can move, and pickup almost exactly where you left off; just in a new location. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 22:00, October 28, 2010 (UTC).
Where would we move to? Would we be able to get there easily? My guess is that the link to wiki for kh wiki would just be moved, but I'm not sure. Would it even be the same? Would we be able to keep our talkboxes? And what about the 8 years of forums we've had? And the article talk pages?Mar 22:05, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)|text=We're ''just'' moving locations. We won't lose much of anything in terms of content (including main articles, forums, and templates). }}
:You would lose some Wikia-only stuff....but none of that is in either list given. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 22:25, October 28, 2010 (UTC).
I understand. What qualifies as "Wikia only material"? I know we'll lose monaco forever, but hey, at leasst we have monobook. I just hopeit won't be too radically differet.Mar 22:30, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

:Monaco's source is actually available, it's a mess and will take more work to clean up, but there's a possibility of using it outside of Wikia. But you also have vector available. The semi-troublesome stuff are images and blocks, the more troublesome stuff are users. Talkboxes are just templates, talkpages are just pages, forums are just pages, just make sure you have the same forum extension installed (it's not a Wikia feature, it's a 3rd party extension that Wikia just installed) and it'll be fine since importing full page history is almost trivial. ~ '''NOTASTAFF''' [[wikia:animanga:User:Dantman|Dantman]]<sup>([[User talk:Dantman|Local Talk]] &#8285; [[wikia:animanga:User talk:Dantman|Animanga Talk]])</sup> 22:38, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
What do you meanby "Users: are troublesome? You mean we'd just lose admin/mod status? Even if we did, we could just immediately get it back, but during that time period, the wiki would be vulnerbale to vandalism.Mar 22:50, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:He means that transferring user accounts is difficult.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 22:55, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
Ohhh..... well we could always just create a new account with the same name wherever we're moving to. Or is it possible? If we have to move every single user over there.... we'd mostly just take the more prominent ones, like you or Trois, while the samll yet still important accounts like me get left in the dust...Mar 22:58, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

::The tricky part is anyone can resister with the name of a user that had edits and pretend they are them, they basically end up claiming the user's contributions. ~ '''NOTASTAFF''' [[wikia:animanga:User:Dantman|Dantman]]<sup>([[User talk:Dantman|Local Talk]] &#8285; [[wikia:animanga:User talk:Dantman|Animanga Talk]])</sup> 23:13, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

{{MV|time=[[User:Master Vantius|Master Vantius]] 00:08, October 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=I have a question.  If the wiki does move, what will happen to our accounts?  Also, wetpaint is an excellent wiki sight.  It is very easy to use and edit.  There is some customization to it.  www.ncisfanwiki.com is a good example.}}
:We could have the accounts be by approval only at first, and have all the people who want to keep their accounts be assigned a set time to register an account, with an admin confirming afterward with the alleged editor that it was them. It would be time consuming, but it would be the safest way to make sure there isn't spoofing.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 00:14, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
What about if we have a variable internet connection? Sometimes my modem goes out for weeks at a time and I can't get on the wiki.Mar 00:19, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Gah, sorry guys.  It's not that I don't have an opinion, it's just that real life hit me over the last couple of weeks...very hard.  Anyway, I would like to ask what would moving encompass, i.e. who's willing to sign up for and set up the new wiki, who's willing to transfer coding and articles, etc.  Breaking down the tasks at this point would make it seem less daunting.  Second, do we have a solid lead on a new home?  And third, how are the transfers with the major wikis who left or are planning on leaving going?  Much as I loathe Oasis, I would rather wait and see what issues occur for other wikis before we jump the gun and end up in the same boat.  We might be able to avoid any major problems down the line by learning from them.  I like Kryten's idea of approving our established users; for my suggestion, is there some way we could assign everyone a unique "password" in secret rather than a time so we wouldn't have a chance of others spoofing at the approved times?  Probably too complicated, but just a thought. {{User:BebopKate/Sig}} 02:51, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the password thing isn't too far off.  We could hold a giant IRC thing.  Oh, and I'll be willing to do any tasks asked of me.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

I agree with the password thing, but I don't know how to access IRC. Can someone please help me out a bit with that? But remember, if you need me, just leave a message on my page, I'll be there(Except during school hours).Mar 03:11, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Do you guys know where you are going? an independent server? web host? [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 04:27, October 29, 2010 (UTC).

:No.  That's the point of this thread.  To figure out where we are going to go.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

{{Maggosh|nathan=As per private hosting; [http://www.110mb.com/ 110mb.com] seems like a viable option - if someone's wiling to shell out, of course. Five bucks a month right about now.}}

:So... $60 a year.  That doesn't sound as bad as it could be.  ''But'', Kryten is calling the vote tonight, so we really need to get discussing.  It appears that through our best options, Wikia is the best (at least up until Oasis) WikiFarm.  What are we going to do?  Are we going to give it time?  Or are we going to abandon?  {{The Inexistentsig}}
::If you can afforad it, i recommend going with a webhost. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 17:11, October 29, 2010 (UTC).
:::If the price is only 60$ a year, I can handle that easily. Frankly, anything under 1200$ a year I could tolerate. I am ''not'' a code guru though, so I would need someone to step up for the technical side of things.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 18:38, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

::Yea, but you can't use tools like Special:Export..... plus you are independent of wiki farms.... [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 19:19, October 29, 2010 (UTC).
:::Sorry to whoever's edit i just erased.... >< [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 19:20, October 29, 2010 (UTC).

{{MV|time=[[User:Master Vantius|Master Vantius]] 19:38, October 29, 2010 (UTC)|text=As I have said before, wetpaint is a good wiki site.  There is no fee to create and maintain a wiki and is easier to edit.}}

{{TalkSephiroth0812|text = As I'm also still a relatively new user, I'll refrain from casting a vote on where to move since I can't overview the entire structure. However I ''do'' ackknowledge we have to think about the unregistered users/readers who can't go with Monobook. So when this place will relocate, what's with the user accounts? Do I have to re-register or confirm my identity per EMail??? [[User:Sephiroth0812|Sephiroth0812]] 21:55, October 29, 2010 (UTC)}}
If at all, the time to decide is now. What will we do? Move? Stay? If were moving, I'd like a little explanation on what to do. If we do move, I'm sure we'd all like to keep our accounts, so will it be a secret password, or a scheduled time? If so, where will the message be?Mar 22:14, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

:We're still figuring that out, be patient. The vote above closes tonight, so it loooks like we'll be moving to Wikii judging from that, but this is still very complicated, so bear with us.--'''<span style="font-family:papyrus">[[User:LapisScarab|<span style="color:midnightblue;">Lapis</span>]]<span style="color:black;">Scarab</span></span>''' 22:17, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

* Wetpaint is not a MediaWiki wiki host, discussing that is pointless.
* Shared hosting (that pitiful $5 hosting) is terrible for installing MediaWiki on; The limited configuration really makes getting /wiki/Article style urls a hassle. You have no control over the software, namely you have no way to setup Memcached, which is pretty key once you get any reasonable level of traffic. If you are going to run MediaWiki you're going to want at the very least a VPS.
:~ '''NOTASTAFF''' [[wikia:animanga:User:Dantman|Dantman]]<sup>([[User talk:Dantman|Local Talk]] &#8285; [[wikia:animanga:User talk:Dantman|Animanga Talk]])</sup> 22:34, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
::* [http://grifkuba.org/MotherEarthBoundWiki/index.php?title=WikiBound WikiBound] is hosted by [http://www.bluehost.com/] and [http://starfoxwiki.org/Main_Page Lylat Wiki] is hosted by [http://www.dreamhost.com/ dreamhost]. Both are pretty good webserver hosts. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 23:11, October 29, 2010 (UTC).
@Lapis: What is wikii? Is it just basically a wikia clone? @Dantman: I'm sure you're right about those, but I don't really know that much other than what's already been said.Mar 00:40, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Read above to find out what Wikii is.  And, what has been said is pretty much all there is.  We are feed up with Wikia's new skin, and are arguing on whether or not to move.  {{The Inexistentsig}}
:Okay, so the decision of the wiki is to move, and to wikkii. I do want to say that while wikkii will be our first target, if they are unable to accommodate us we can discuss whether to move somewhere else.
:I'll try to contact wikkii tomorrow if I get time, and will also look into VPS like Dantman suggests. It would be helpful if another staff member could help do research into private hosting, if it's that cheap.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 02:43, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Or we could, you know, do KKD's plan and wait until the year ends before we pack our bags. --{{User:LegoAlchemist/Sig}} 03:17, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

Lego's right, I think we should try the new skin for awhile while preparing to move out at the same time. Also we can consider it our respect for wikia for letting us use its service for so long. {{User:17master/Sign}}

One problem with that: I can NOT navigate wikia with oasis. I wouldn't know how to get to forums or IRC with oasis. Unless they are keeping monobook, in which case I'm good. Then I think we can stay till the end of the year. It'll give us time to set things up at wikkiiMar 03:36, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

It's midnight anyway, according to my clock. I guess what happens is we move to wikkii. But when? and how?Mar 03:59, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

As I've said, yes, they are keeping Monobook, but that isn't the point. The basic skin is still Oasis, meaning readers will be stuck with the confusing mess it is. This isn't just about us. And again, Mar1, be ''patient''. We're figuring that out. I promise you that we won't keep this a secret once we have everything ready to go.--'''<span style="font-family:papyrus">[[User:LapisScarab|<span style="color:midnightblue;">Lapis</span>]]<span style="color:black;">Scarab</span></span>''' 04:26, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
:I'm sorry that I'm so out of this, but can we not just make the default theme of the wiki monobook? Or did they disallow that as well? {{KKDSig|1}}
::That's been disallowed ever since they made monaco the default. ~ '''NOTASTAFF''' [[wikia:animanga:User:Dantman|Dantman]]<sup>([[User talk:Dantman|Local Talk]] &#8285; [[wikia:animanga:User talk:Dantman|Animanga Talk]])</sup> 04:45, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

The best we can do now is just set our preferences to monobook. I have come across a problem though. My computer won't let me use the IRC with either skin. Is it something I'm doing, or is my computer messed up? I log in, and it immediately logs me out. WTH?Mar 05:05, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

:Wait, what?  The IRC has nothing to do with the skin.  That should have to do with your web client (like Freenode).  {{The Inexistentsig}}

Excuse me for saying this, but I feel like moving is unproductive. Lets say we do move, and we leave this site to gather dust. Then all the unknowing will still continue to use this wiki, which will have outdated information. Or if, like suggested before, we move but have some people stay behind, then we have two wikis. It seems counter productive. '''Number XIII'''  - ''LightRoxas'' - '''The Key of Destiny''' 22:59, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

{{neumannz|time=23:31, October 30, 2010 (UTC)|text=Argh. Did you read the previous discussions at all?

Yes, this place will still exist. And yes, it will fairly quickly become outdated. BUT. We will continue to do what we do, and soon enough we will be the better wiki, and we will generate new traffic. It may take time, but it can be done, and we simply cannot manage with Wikia the way we have up to now.}}

Yes I read it. But it seems like a little too much work over one (albeit horrible) skin. '''Number XIII'''  - ''LightRoxas'' - '''The Key of Destiny''' 20:00, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
:It's not just the skin why other wiki's are moving, and why we recommend the same for you guys. Also: 
:*No more disruptive advertisements.
:*Simpler, less complicated format.
:*No unnecessary updates or implementations (Blogs, Article Comments, Badges, etc.)
:*Less vandalism. With a more secure domain, we won't have to worry too much about that.
:*Organization of things will be easier overall.
:See [http://starfox.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We're_merging_with_Lylat_Wiki!_All_users_report!] this for more info. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 20:05, October 31, 2010 (UTC).

{{Xalxe|text=So, we're moving then.  Joy.

In terms of getting information moved, I propose it gets divided up among whoever knows what's going on and is capable of doing it.

User confirmation should be fairly easy; you have our emails from when we registered, yes?  Use those unless there's a personal issue and give everyone some sort of confirmation code (or a new password to use on the newly-created account).}}

Hey guys, I've moved a few wikis to private hosting for NIWA and I could do the same for this wiki if you'd like. The wiki wouldn't actually join NIWA, but would become an affiliate. But I guess most importantly, it would be off Wikia. --[[User:Porplemontage|Porplemontage]] 08:15, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
:This sounds great. Can you fill us with more details about the private hosting (the conditions etc.)? --[[User:ShardofTruth|ShardofTruth]] 10:45, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
::I'm thinking I would host this on kingdomheartsdb.com and we would call the site Kingdom Hearts Database. I'm open to other domain ideas. I'd be able to transfer everything over fairly quickly. If hosting costs increase a lot over time, I'd have to serve ads to logged-out users. Let me know if you have any specific questions. --[[User:Porplemontage|Porplemontage]] 19:37, November 1, 2010 (UTC)

Were moving, huh? So what's the plan? E-mail codes? Time codes? Fill us in, tomorrows the last day with monaco. And one more questin: Will wherever we're moving have monaco, or no?Mar 01:20, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

Once again, have you read the above conversation?  No, it will most likely not have Monaco, unless we want to do some serious coding.  And before you start asking why we're moving to a place without Monaco because Wikia is getting rid of Monaco, it is more because of how the new skin, Oasis, effects our readers ability to absorb our content.  Other than that, we have no idea what we're doing.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

And why can't we move to "kingdomheartswiki.com" and still be the KH wiki?  or "KHwiki.com"?  Just curious.  {{The Inexistentsig}}
:These domains are not available. --[[User:Porplemontage|Porplemontage]] 01:44, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

::[http://www.google.com/search?q=kingdomheartswiki.com&rlz=1I7GGIE_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7 What?]  {{The Inexistentsig}}
:::Kindgomheartwiki.com is owned. See [http://whois.domaintools.com/kingdomheartswiki.com this link]. Kingdomheartwiki.info and .net are available. [[User:Bud0011|Bud0011]] 02:07, November 3, 2010 (UTC).

Damn.  .net sounds okay, though.  {{The Inexistentsig}}
:khwiki.net is open. Would that be okay with everyone, if wikkii turns out to be unacceptable?[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 03:43, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

::That would be perfect.  --[[User:Neumannz|'''<span style="font-family:Gisha; color:#005400">Neumannz</span>''']], [[User talk:Neumannz|''<span style="color:black; font-family:Agency FB Bold">The Dark Falcon</span>'']] 03:47, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

::Yes. A .NET address is perfectly fine. <span style="font-weight: bold; text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px #000000;">[[ [[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">So</span>]][[User_talk:Soxra|<span style="color: #CC0000;">x</span>]][[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">ra</span>]] ]]</span> 17:38, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
*Weird to merge with NIWA (Nintendo Independent Wiki Association i think). KH is not part of Nintendo in anyway (besides publishing). --[[Special:Contributions/71.243.23.26|71.243.23.26]] 19:31, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

We won't have to move! Go to Preferences and click Monobook preview, click Save Settings and the Wikia is not Oasis!--My Keyblade + Your face = pwnage 20:10, November 3, 2010 (UTC)Chihuahuaman

{{TalkSephiroth0812|text= Sorry Chihuahuaman, you don't get the whole point. Switching to Monobook is only an option for us registered users. Normal readers/users who i.e. just want to read the information on the wiki are stuck with that abomination called Oasis...since Wikia doesn't even allow individual wikis to set Monobook as Standard as far as I know.
If they would allow the Kingdom Hearts Wiki to set Monobook as standard so that unregistered users can have a better organized look too I think it might be different, but not as it is now.}}

Monobook is still far inferior to Monaco. The fact that Monobook isthe better option for editors and not even an option for readers is just the nail in the coffin. Wikia's refusal to listen to the overwhelmingly negative response to the skin is the primary reason I think we should move. But the discussion is over anyway, we held a vote and the overwhelming majority (again) voted to move. Now we're just discussing how to do so.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}'''<span style="font-family:papyrus">[[User:LapisScarab|<span style="color:midnightblue;">Lapis</span>]]<span style="color:black;">Scarab</span></span>''' 20:25, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

:I also think that the .NET adress is a good choice and be associated with NIWA is perfectly fine too, because it's really hard for independend wikis to represent themselves proper. --[[User:ShardofTruth|ShardofTruth]] 20:37, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

{{TalkSephiroth0812|text= Yeah, i know Monobook has its limitations compared to Monaco...i just didn't want to sound '''all''' negative. Actually, seeing how really many people tried to appeal to wikia across several language areas and they still stubbornly go through with that crap I would wish to see that '''many''' Wikis move and not just a few so it really hurts wikia, let' them see what their stubborness caused.}}

I like the .net adress as well. It makes sense to keep some form of "Kingdom Hearts Wiki" in our domain name, rather than changing it to "Data Base". People know us as the Kingdom Hearts Wiki already. Also, it's not ''that'' odd for us to be affiliated with NIWA, since several of the series' games have been on Nintendo platforms exclusively.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}20:49, November 3, 2010 (UTC)


== Moving and the remaining wiki ==

{{SannseTalk|time=20:54, November 3, 2010 (UTC)|text=I'm sorry you've decided to leave, I'll be sad to see any of you go.  I've just had a long talk with KrytenKoro about wiki philosophy, and the intention of this change to encourage wikis to develop by bringing in new users (and so new future editors)... but I don't think we really came to an understanding on that :(

I know you are aware that this wiki will still be open, and available for anyone who chooses to keep editing here and for any future visitors.  I see on the community messages that someone has added that "edits reformatting it in favor of the new skin will be reverted", that's very unfair to any future editors here and their readers.  So I ask that you allow those changes, as long as they don't otherwise break formatting.  Many thanks, and (although I respect your decision) I hope you will stick around}}
{{LapisScarab|time=21:07, November 3, 2010 (UTC)|text=I agree with that. For one thing, when we move, this wiki will no longer be our business. In fact, any edits to this wiki will ''have'' to be geared toward the new skin (horrible though it may be). Again, it is the default skin; Formatting things to monobook does nothing to help the readers. We don't have a right to directly prevent anyone from editing this wiki, though we can advise them not to.}}
{{Soxra|text=The changes can be made once we've exported the database and moved. We don't want the Oasis changes coming over to the new wiki. So, until the time comes, we're refraining from having the Oasis changes be made.|time=<span style="font-weight: bold; text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px #000000;">[[ [[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">So</span>]][[User_talk:Soxra|<span style="color: #CC0000;">x</span>]][[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">ra</span>]] ]]</span> 21:12, November 3, 2010 (UTC)}}

{{GrandPyromania|time=00:47, November 4, 2010 (UTC)|text=Alright, I'm sorry, but this is rather hard to follow, what is the initial decision? Are we taking up NIWA's offer to affiliate with them? Or are we going elsewhere? The former would be most beneficial in my opinion.}}

Oh my... has '''anybody''' read '''any''' of the former comments or threads?  NIWA said that they ''couldn't'' and ''wouldn't'' affiliate with us (i.e.- let us be a part of them).  {{The Inexistentsig}}

I don't think you quite read what they said, Inexistent. Affiliating with NIWA (which they have offered) is different than joining with them (which they have disallowed). Affiliating is just them basically advertizing for us, like we do for the KHFanon Wiki. Anyway, @GrandPyromania: The current plan is to try Wikii, but if that doesn't work out it sounds like we'll be doing private hosting.{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}01:11, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

{{SC|time=01:13, November 4, 2010 (UTC)|text=Honestly, I think private hosting is best. Then, we get more control to ensure this type of thing doesn't happen again.}}

{{Uxie|time=01:18, November 4, 2010 (UTC)|luna=Monoco's gone, people. What to do? I agree with the move, but it's better off we request this wiki be deleated after we move. With Oasis, I am super berserk! Please tell me where we head to; I HATE THIS SKIN!

Also, TNE told me (on YouTube) that the main reason why she left is because of THIS!}}
{{Falcos|angry=So, our time's up. Now what? Has the wikkii been set up? If not, can I help at all?}}
{{Bluer|11:01, November 4, 2010 (UTC)|I have opted to stay at the current domain, and continue to maintain the wiki. I am sorry that a large part of the community have decided to move, but I know they will be much more comfortable at the new domain. I wont hinder the moving process, but I wont be assisting either.

My current plan is to highlight the wiki's preference to Monobook, which was the original skin that KHWiki first worked upon. However, I mirror Sannse's stance that changes to accommodate the new skin will be allowed as long as they don't break formatting for Monobook.

That said, I wish all the best for the exodus, and hope that you will remember this archivist that remained.}}
{{KrytenKoro|Seriously though, ''why?'' I mean, are you planning on copying the edits from the new wiki (which would sabotage our google ratings and make us impossible to find?) Is there another plan? What is the endgame in staying behind?}}
{{Bluer|17:01, November 4, 2010 (UTC)|Dude, knock it off with the conspiracy theories, will ya?

I dunno. I feel nostalgic. Blame it on my four-year wikia fling.}}

{{Maggosh|nathan=Yeah, I'll be staying with Bluer on this one.<!---Sorry, Kryten, I just keep changing my mind...! >_<---> That's not to say I'm not editing on the other wiki, too.}}
{{JFHavoc|time=19:06, November 4, 2010 (UTC)|text=I agree with maggosh, too much work here to just let it rot. But I'll still be over at wherever we decide to go.}}
I'm staying too. I may help with the new location, but I won't let the current Wikia just sit and become vandal chum. [[User:Tamroc7|Tamroc7]] 19:17, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
{{DTN|time=19:34, November 4, 2010 (UTC)|text=I plan on moving completely to the new wiki. I can of course still maintain my position as an administrator here and carry out any admin work that needs to be done here, but almost, if not ''all'' of my constructive editing will be on the new wiki. Also, I think there is a '''''major''''' miscommunication here. A new wiki does not mean restart from scratch. We would import all of the articles, templates, and pages to the new wiki, so that we have ''the exact same content on a better host''.

Also, I would like to open an idea to the community of KHWiki, as well as to several other wikis. I believe that I have spoken to KrytenKoro about this idea, and a few of the FFWiki admins have also liked the idea and would support it. We seem to understand that NIWA is a large portal for Nintendo-based wikis. I propose the idea of forming a portal for Square-Enix wikis, using the MediaWiki software. Essentially, we are recreating NIWA for a different type of gaming wiki. Of course, the two main wikis would be KHWiki and FFWiki, though we could also invite CronoWiki, Dragon Quest Wiki, and even KHWiki Francophone and Espanol. By doing this, all of the connected wikis can grow from each other. We will still all be separate wikis in every respect, but when one wiki gain more contributors or readers, those people are bound to trickle to the other wikis as well.

This would involve private hosting, possibly of multiple wikis, and we would have to contact NIWA to figure out how they set up their portal. However, we have on multiple occasions shown that the entire community has the potential to financially support the wiki and its off-wiki links (ex: users in this thread offering to pay hosting fees and the money that our community was able to donate to Adola's bot servers for the IRC). Honestly, the communities of the main (and even some minor) Square-Enix wikis are akin to each other, since several editors edit more than one of these wikis. Our wikis are already joined by editors (and in many cases, templates and interwiki content and linking), so we would just be building on that connection.

This should also get us more views and readers than moving to a lesser known wikifarm. Seriously, Wikia is ''huge'', leaving it is going to cost us an enormous amount of our readers. To gain them back, we're going to have to stay as well known as we can. If Wikii is the small service provider it looks to be, that may not be our best option.
----
Sannse: It does seem that the decision of our community is to leave Wikia. I would like to thank you and the entire Wikia team for providing us with dependable and free hosting for our wiki's first few years. Wikia was exactly what our wiki needed to grow and become the wiki we are now, so thank you for that. On the behalf of KHWiki, I do want to acknowledge Wikia for the helpful things they have done for our wiki, such as accommodating our many requests to remove features from our wiki that Wikia has introduced. Please be aware, Wikia, that we are still thankful for all of the opportunities that you have provided our wiki in the years that you have hosted us, but it is time for us to seek better hosting. The new skin isn't bad for all Wikia wikis; but for this one, it just does not fit... at all. We wish you the best of luck, and thank you personally, Sannse, for your involvement in this forum.


Sincerely, 

DTN}}
{{KrytenKoro|Bluer: I'm not coming up with conspiracy theories. I'm not accusing you of anything. You said you are going to stay here - well, that is already a hit on the new site's google-findability, but what do you plan to ''do'' here? If the editors staying here plan to edit at a high level, the new site will not be findable through google. That's not a conspiracy theory, ''that's how google is designed to work''.

I would really, really like to know what the "end-goal" of staying here is. The purported end-goal of the new wiki will be, just as before, to one day have a comprehensive, professional wiki for all information within the Kingdom Hearts franchise. What is the end-goal of staying here? Will the new wiki be more facebook/community-based, with essays, captions, comics, etc., like the Naruto wiki discussed doing? Will it simply "stop", and stay the same as it is now forever as some kind of marker for when we decided we had had enough? Again, not accusing here. ''I'm genuinely confused as to what the goal is.''

If the goal isn't different than the one we had before this, then it ends up coming off as "Finely, I'm rid of those guys and have this place to myself", which is exactly the situation that happened when tfwiki moved - all the people who disagreed with how the previous community ran things took over, at least until they started infighting and collapsed again. The google thing could also make it look like the person is actively trying to sabotage the new wiki, since without being ''different'', the only consequence of having two kingdom hearts wikis is that the newer one suffers with regards to google.

Again, I do not, at all, believe that anyone who is thinking about staying behind is actually planning something like that. But those are very real consequences of staying behind, and without actually explaining your reasons, I have to assume you just haven't thought it out fully. So, again, I'm baffled.}}

{{The Inexistent|hood='''Exactly right, KK.  If moving to Wikii is most likely going to fail, why even go there? Moving to a private host afterward would make ''three'' Kingdom Hearts Wikis.  Oh, and Lapis, my apologies.  I define affiliate with "join" as a synonym.  Sorry about that.  <small>But people still need to read the previous sections</small>.'''}}
{{LapisScarab|time=23:13, November 4, 2010 (UTC)|text='Tis fine, The_Inexistent. Anyway, if private hosting would be a better option, we can go for that. I’m willing to go with whatever would work best.}}
{{SC|time=23:42, November 4, 2010 (UTC)|text=The SIWA idea is genius, Doorsey. I asked the main admin about it, but I'm an admin there too, and I think it's an awesome idea. He should get back to me about it soon.}}
{{JFHavoc|time=05:22, November 5, 2010 (UTC)|talk=The purpose of staying behind would be so that it doesn't become a festival for vandals. This Kingdom hearts Wiki is going to stay pretty far up on the google listings for a while. If people come here instead of the other wiki and find that the information on Sora's page has been changed to "Gay with Riku" then nothing is accomplished. If we were to leave, it might be a good idea to delete this wiki.}}
{{KrytenKoro|..okay:
#That is not an end-goal, and at best it sounds like "putting the wiki in stasis", which wikia will not allow.
#''Keeping this wiki high up in the google listing through that process'' '''is''' actively sabotaging the new wiki in the google listings.
#To be speaking from ruthlessness, it's in the new wiki's best interests for this original site address's version to become a deterrent. The situation you describe would in fact increase traffic to the new wiki, both from users looking for an acceptable KH wiki, and from people searching on google.

This isn't like when we split off into the kh fanon wikia. We're not keeping any sancrosanct material at both locations - only one. The "staying behind" thing, as you guys describe it, is ''directly'' analagous to a cicada keeping its husk just so that it doesn't get eaten - the cicada has absolutely no use for the husk, and is in fact doing better without it. The behavior is misplaced sentimentality at best.

Again, if there are people who want to stay, ''that's fine''. But you need to have an end-goal for how you want to redefine the wiki, because if you keep it the same as the original goal (which the new wiki will be taking), then you are actively hurting the new wiki. There's no way around that.

Personally, I would suggest rolling with the facebook-style of Oasis, and making the site into something much more akin to a fansite. The Naruto wiki's thread, which I posted way back at the beginning of this discussion, has a more detailed outline for the ideas they were considering for the "husk", and I think they would work well for you.

But, again, please, ''please'' make this wiki different from the moved wiki. Keeping it the same hurts us.}}
{{Falcos|angry=Ok, can I please ask when the move is taking place, and how I can help it do so, if at all?}}

I'm an admin for Chronopedia and all for the new change. I'm just not exactly sure what I'll need to do until I get a hand on experience with the new "Chronopedia". Yet I may still edit and stuff in the original Chronopedia until I get a better feel editing in the new area. <big>'''[[User:Zeypher|<font color="Red">Zey</font>]]<sup>[[User Talk: Zeypher|<font color="Silver">pher</font>]]</sup>'''</big> 15:45, November 5, 2010 (UTC) [Admin of [[wikia:chrono|Chronopedia]]]

@Bluer: if you still want to stay with Wikia, that's fine.  You'll still have the FFWiki to edit on, staying on this wiki is not a necisity.  @Falcos- we don't know when we will be leaving.  {{The Inexistentsig}}

I'll be staying too. '''Number XIII'''  - ''LightRoxas'' - '''The Key of Destiny''' 20:56, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

{{Roxas pwns sora47|time=22:29, November 5, 2010 (UTC)|text=Ok, so I know everyone's gonna be like "read the above comments!!!!" and all that, but when and even more importantly, WHERE is the bloody, cursed move?!!??? plus, why can't we just use the new, better skin and stay??
P.S. Please put answers on my talk page.}}
{{LA|Vtext=...Kryten, you can't say that by doing things the way we normally do here is sabotage to the "new wiki". This will first and foremost always be the Kingdom Hearts ''Wiki'', as a "wiki" is something hosted by wikia, IMO. Like it or not, we were here ''first'', and this new wiki, to me, sounds like it's just a place editors that don't want to deal with Oasis go. This is still the official Kingdom Hearts ''Wiki'', and if any site needs to change its "end-goal", it is the new one. The people who are fine with putting up with Oasis shouldn't be forced to change their motives because there is a second, technically unofficial, "wiki" in play. It isn't fair, especially to those users who haven't found their way here and are ignorant to the fact that we ''are'' moving. But I don't want to mistake "moving" with "abandoning the 'wikia-wiki'". It honestly sounds, to me, that the only person who really wants to abandon wikia is you, Kryten. Pretty much everyone else is either staying behind or willing to work in both domains.

I suggest opening up some kind of poll (the kind where you have to sign, not the <nowiki><poll></nowiki> kind of poll) like Narutopedia did. "Will you stay behind once the wiki is moved (or not, or both)" and stuff like "How much would you be willing to donate towards the new wiki?" that has, y'know, options and stuff.

Of course, I'm sure you'll come up with a bulleted list of my arguments and find ways to counter them. You always manage to do that.}}
{{Soxra|text=Of course Kryten will reply to you as well, LegoAlchemist, but I figured I might as well throw in my two cents on the issue also.

Firstly, I kind of want to clarify what a "Wiki" is. Not all Wikis are hosted by Wikia... Wikipedia is a perfect example of that. By definition, "A wiki is a website that allows the easy creation and editing of any number of interlinked web pages via a web browser using a simplified markup language or a WYSIWYG text editor." That means that once we split, there will be two "Wiki" pages for Kingdom Hearts.

That minor clarification aside, Kryten is right. Having two Wikis will actively hinder the progress of the ''new'' Wiki. Think about it--we will both be trying to achieve the same thing, and in order to do that, we have to have actively changing pages and content added. To keep them synonymous is impossible, which means one will always trump the other. Most likely, this one will trump the new one because of Wikia's status, and because we're trying to keep the information in easy accessible place, it's going to hurt the new Wiki's user count.

That's not to say we have to delete this Wiki. While I think that's not necessarily a bad idea (though a lot of people seem to want to stay--which is fine), I think this Wiki could be put to better use. Kryten suggested a fansite--which is one of a number of ideas--which in my opinion is a great way to use this space.

Regardless, there's a few things to think about. Don't know exactly how highly you think of ''my'' opinion but playing devil's advocate is always fun. Personally I will probably be around both Wikis, though more active on the new one (and the old one will just be a bit of an information hub for me).

''Kind regards,

'''Soxra'''''|time=<span style="font-weight: bold; text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px #000000;">[[ [[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">So</span>]][[User_talk:Soxra|<span style="color: #CC0000;">x</span>]][[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">ra</span>]] ]]</span> 02:07, November 6, 2010 (UTC)}}
{{LapisScarab|time=02:29, November 6, 2010 (UTC)|text=I'll take the liberty of refuting two of your statements in lieu of Kryten, LA. 1) He is ''not'' the only one in favor of abandoning Wikia, I am another user who fully supports it. The only thing I'll "work from either domain" about is exactly where we'll move. 2) We have had a poll exactly like you're describing already, which you can see at the very top of this forum. It was 17 to 3 in favor of leaving Wikia (again poking a hole in your "Kryten is the only one who wants to leave" comment). If you disagreed, you could have participated in the actual vote, not try to undo the decision after ythe fact.}}  
{{KrytenKoro|Because you insist:

*"...Kryten, you can't say that by doing things the way we normally do here is sabotage to the "new wiki"." - I can, because google favors wikipedia and wikia in its results, beyond simple hit counts.
*"This will first and foremost always be the Kingdom Hearts ''Wiki'', as a "wiki" is something hosted by wikia, IMO." - purely wrong.
*"Like it or not, we were here ''first'', and this new wiki, to me, sounds like it's just a place editors that don't want to deal with Oasis go." - We deliberated over this for over a month. Oasis detracts from the actual content, and nearly all of wikia's "solutions" for the problem are to "remove stuff until it fits".
*"This is still the official Kingdom Hearts ''Wiki'', and if any site needs to change its "end-goal", it is the new one." - I'm honestly a bit tired of this. You need to pull the stick out of your ass, because we ''have'' discussed this for a month, most of the wiki got a chance to participate, and just because people decided to abstain from voting doesn't mean they were ignorant of the decision. DTN and Neumannz have personally shown that there are other admins who want to move, despite you saying that I was the only regular editor that voted to move. DTN has personally explained to me his reason for not voting, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with ignorance. Honestly, the only editors who seem not to know about the discussion ''haven't shown up for months'', and aren't reachable by any means I have.
*"The people who are fine with putting up with Oasis shouldn't be forced to change their motives because there is a second, technically unofficial, "wiki" in play." - Yes, they should. One, because the community decided that the "official wiki" would move, and two, because Oasis simply doesn't allow the original site to live up to its original goal, ''which is why we wanted to move.'' (And three, wikia doesn't make a wiki official. The zelda wiki at wikia is fairly crap compared to Zelda Wiki, which made sure not to let wikia buy them out and force control over them.)
*"It isn't fair, especially to those users who haven't found their way here and are ignorant to the fact that we ''are'' moving." - I don't think anyone couldn't find their way here. Many anons and IPs even found their way here. We have been discussing this for a month, and have posted sitenotices, stickied threads, and put it as the IRC main topic. We have done everything short of leaving talk page messages ''demanding'' people to vote.
*"But I don't want to mistake "moving" with "abandoning the 'wikia-wiki'". It honestly sounds, to me, that the only person who really wants to abandon wikia is you, Kryten." - Again: stick, out of ass.
*"Pretty much everyone else is either staying behind or willing to work in both domains." - Again again: stick, out of ass. Few people have said they want to stay behind, or would want to work on both sites. Furthermore, THAT DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAY, since they would still be hurting the new wiki.
*"I suggest opening up some kind of poll (the kind where you have to sign, not the <nowiki><poll></nowiki> kind of poll) like Narutopedia did." - we did, after a month of discussion.
*"Will you stay behind once the wiki is moved (or not, or both)" - there is no reason to ask anyone that, since it's none of our business. I am not asking Bluerfn out of any place of authority, but simply one of confusion.
*"How much would you be willing to donate towards the new wiki?" that has, y'know, options and stuff." - I've already said I'll pay every damn cent if we decide to private host. Funding is not an issue at all.
*If your goal is to have the wiki follow its original goal, come to the new address. The move is literally just that - the only difference between the new site and how this site was in September is the address. None of the material, or programming, or functionality will be missing. Hell, we can even port in oasis as an optional skin if people want it there, it just won't be mandatory.
*I don't like yelling at you, LA, but you are sticking to this blatantly false narrative which you've been using to lodge accusations at me for some reason, here and on the IRC. I'm tired of it, and honestly, I wish you'd grow up.


Like I said earlier, and have been saying, ''Oasis makes comprehensive, quality coverage impossible''. It is designed to appeal to the facebook crowd, and many of its comments, such as comment sections on articles, specifically encourage a more fansite-oriented wiki. What I was saying is that those who stay behind, ''WHO HAVE DECIDED THAT OASIS IS WHAT THEY WANT THE WIKI TO USE'', should '''take advantage of Oasis for what it is designed for'''. Oasis is not evil, it's just not appropriate for what we were doing here - I fully support those who continue to edit at this address to make wikia's version of the wiki ''the best it can be'', rather than slaving it to an incompatible goal that will make it look crappy and '''''<u>directly</u>''''' hurt those who want to work at a wiki with an attainable goal.}}
{{LA|Vtext=As expected.

All I can say here is,

HAHAHAHAHA DISREGARD THAT I SUCK C-*shot*

I don't want to directly hinder a new wiki >:<nowiki>|</nowiki> I thought I already said on the IRC that I supported a move. I'm just saying that we shouldn't throw away the old wiki like a piece of garbage.

But since I can't "grow up", and I clearly have a "stick up my ass", I suppose I'll just stay away from both wikis, and contribute where my opinion actually matters. Good day to you, asshole.}}
{{KrytenKoro|I have never said that we should throw away the old wiki. If you spent one second reading my posts, or following the links I've provided, you'd see that I'm trying to suggest a way that the original site can ''work with Oasis as best as possible''. It just happens that that method is NOT the same as building a good wiki, which is why we decided to move.

You said on the IRC that you didn't support a move, then you accused me of trying to mastermind this for my own benefit, and manipulating people. Then you did it again, here. I have no patience for propagandist lies, whether I respected the person making them or not. You can say what you want, but please stop trying to paint a false picture by saying stupid shit like "I'll contribute where my opinion actually matters," when you know damn well that no one here is the strawman you are depicting them as.}}
{{Falcos|angry=Ok, can I please ask that we stop bickering back and forth? There was a vote, it was decided that we move. So, let's move. Shouldn't this be done ASAP? Also, if a private domain must be payed for, I am willing to pay a good chunk of what is required. So, can we please stop arguing and just move? Sorry, I'm a tad impatient.}}

{{LightRoxas|text=I absolutely agree with Falcos here. A simple thing such as moving has spiraled into the Keyblade War. We all need to take a deep breath here and cut it with the name calling. I think that everyone needs to accept others ideas so we can decide what's going to happen. So, Kryten wants this to be a fanpage, and I think that it's not a bad idea. We could even keep the forums and everything. Lets start peacefully negotiating instead flame warring.}}

Darn it Light Roxas, you gave me an edit conflict. Okay, no one edit until I made my message. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 14:36, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, we all hate Oasis (myself included), but we would have to accept changes too. In 2008, I think some people hated Monaco too. However, we got used to it and got upset when it is gone. Also, the wikis that moved don't have Monaco. If it was easy to get Monaco, they would have Monaco as their default skin. And what would happen to the Keyblade War? If it moves to the new wiki, what is going to happen to the Keyblade War on this wiki? If it comes to a standstill, I wouldn't be happy. You know how impatient I am. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] 14:46, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

{{Chitalian8|time=15:05, November 6, 2010 (UTC)|text= We've been over this, Sean. Monaco had one major difference from Oasis: It did not compresss all of the text and images. Oasis actually ''ruins'' the appearence of the wiki. And also, too bad if you have to wait a little for TKW.}}


@SeanWheeler: I have answered that question at least twice now on different forums. I don't care if you're impatient or not, but you won't ''be'' as impatient if you actually bothered to read peoples' responses to your questions.

We should create a separate forum to decide what this wiki will end up doing after the move. This one is about deciding where the "new" wiki will move to.
{{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}15:18, November 6, 2010 (UTC)


{{DDark|time=[[User:D.Dark.|D.Dark.]] 15:22, November 6, 2010 (UTC)|text= Geez whats with all that text? I might sound like a total douche saying this but I just cant take all that. Anyway, obviously I am aware of the transition but where exactly, has it already started? Can I get a link? Cause honestly I'm probably one of the few who aren't sure if we should stay or leave. Anyone? }}

{{Soxra|text=The move has not yet occurred. I'm not sure where it will be posted when we do (probably in the community announcements) but I doubt you will be left in the dark.|time=<span style="font-weight: bold; text-shadow: 1px 1px 2px #000000;">[[ [[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">So</span>]][[User_talk:Soxra|<span style="color: #CC0000;">x</span>]][[User:Soxra|<span style="color: #FFC000;">ra</span>]] ]]</span> 05:03, November 7, 2010 (UTC)}}

I've started moving stuff [http://www.kingdomheartsdb.com/ here]. If you want to poke around, your Wikia login will work over there. This is not official, so if the community decides to move somewhere else, I'll take this down. Not everything is transferred yet. --[[User:Porplemontage|Porplemontage]] 18:52, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

{{CaelumLucisCaliga|time=05:55, November 8, 2010 (UTC)|darkcookies=I’m completely against moving. Though I’m not as famous as TNE or something, this wiki’s been like a computer home for me for the past couple months. </unnecessary emotional sentence> However, since we <i>are</i> moving, I say we delete this one. Though it pains me so, we can’t keep this one up if it’s useless and half-dead. Again, if we <i>do</i> keep it, I volunteer myself to help keep it vandal-free. Sigh, I’m gonna miss this place. :(}}