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| {{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|Twilight Town Library}} | | {{Forumheader|Twilight Town Library}} |
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| :No, Nomura hints pretty hard that the Lingering Sentiment is a Nobody, and it has more than one emotion, so it can't be an Unversed. | | :No, Nomura hints pretty hard that the Lingering Sentiment is a Nobody, and it has more than one emotion, so it can't be an Unversed. |
| :The Heartless Emblem, in KH1, is used as the crest of Hollow Bastion (with there even being a room called the "Great Crest" (which is a giant facade of the castle built in the shape of the emblem), and having to find the jeweled portions of the crest to open a door). There's not really been any further backstory to it, and it's a pretty typical-looking royal crest, so there's no reason it couldn't have appeared in BbS as part of the castle or the guard's uniforms. The Nobody Emblem is designed by Xehanort, based on the Keyblade wielder Mark of Mastery emblem, which might be what you're thinking of.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 13:52, November 1, 2010 (UTC) | | :The Heartless Emblem, in KH1, is used as the crest of Hollow Bastion (with there even being a room called the "Great Crest" (which is a giant facade of the castle built in the shape of the emblem), and having to find the jeweled portions of the crest to open a door). There's not really been any further backstory to it, and it's a pretty typical-looking royal crest, so there's no reason it couldn't have appeared in BbS as part of the castle or the guard's uniforms. The Nobody Emblem is designed by Xehanort, based on the Keyblade wielder Mark of Mastery emblem, which might be what you're thinking of.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 13:52, November 1, 2010 (UTC) |
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| ...wait, Nobody? I thought Lingering Sentiment is Terra's armor? I mean, his body is still there and all. I think Xemnas is Terra's Nobody. since shen Xehanort turns into a Heartless, the empty shell that's left is terra's body. {{User:17master/Sign}}
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| With regards to the Lingering Sentiment, I was thinking about that "the only thing I have to offer is my hatred for Xehanort" thing. I suppose it could be some form of Nobody, but I don't know. And no, I was referring to the Heartless Emblem. Some pretty heavy retconning took place between KH1 & KH2. It's possible that the story of the emblem's origin changed slightly, as well. I mean, another whole castle sprouted up. Anything's possible. Also, is there anything that necessarily says that Unversed have to have 1 & only 1 emotion?[[User:Neo Bahamut|Neo Bahamut]] 14:07, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
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| :Yes, Nomura. Nomura said that they manifest an emotion; the Flood are "irritation".
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| :The Heartless Emblem is built into Ansem the Wise's Hollow Bastion; the one with the library, and chapel, etc. The Villain's Vale is a separate set of meager towers that Maleficent built when she attacked Radiant Garden.
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| :The Lingering Sentiment has Terra's whole mind, and a sort of body. It is not a true Nobody, but it is not an Unversed, a Heartless, or a whole being. Nomura hints at this ''very hard'' in the Ultimania interview, when he is asked whether the Lingering Sentiment is a Nobody, and he says something like, "Well, it's not a Heartless."
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| :Xemnas is Terra-Xehanort's Nobody, not Terra's. They have three hearts, one body, and at least two minds to partition out - Terra's mind goes into the armor and becomes the Lingering Sentiment, Xehanort's heart goes into Ansem SoD, and Terra's body and Xehanort's mind go into Xemnas. It's likely that Terra and Eraqus's hearts go into Ansem SoD and later pass onto Riku, explaining his Synch Blade, though one of them might have stayed behind with Xemnas instead, to explain his odd behavior in the Chamber of Repose (probably Terra's in that case, especially since Eraqus's heart is fairly dormant, while Terra's is actively fighting Xehanort's).[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 14:17, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
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| "It's not a heartless" doesn't scream "it's a nobody" to me. In fact, it seems more likely that he was hinting that it was something yet to be explained. Also, I found the quote about the Unversed. "...the Unversed behave according to Vanitas's will, and emotionally. For example, the Flood portray feelings of irritation." So, yeah. He doesn't say that it's a strict 1:1 ratio between emotions & Unversed. And the problem about that explanation of the castle is that the castle in KH1 looks nothing like the castle in KH2.[[User:Neo Bahamut|Neo Bahamut]] 14:30, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
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| :...okay, let's do this again.
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| #Lingering Sentiment canonically has Terra's full mind.
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| #Nomura is point-blank asked whether it is a Nobody, and instead of denying it, says "it's not a Heartless". No, it's not a ''true'' Nobody, but neither are Roxas, Namine, or Xion, and Nomura gave similar answers for them.
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| #It's a bit harder to understand, but the "according to" there is almost certainly translated from a verb which ''does'' give a 1:1 ratio. The line would probably be better translated as "The Unversed act at Vanitas's will, and behave according to their emotion," though I'd have to see the original line to know for sure. Besides, the followup sentence makes it pretty clear he does mean a 1:1 ratio.
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| #We see different sides of the castle in KH1 and KH2. In KH1 we see the side facing the outer wastes; in KH2 and BbS we see the side facing the town. It's still canonically the same castle, especially because it's the one with Ansem's library that Kairi and her grandmother are seen in.[[User:KrytenKoro|(ಠ_ೃ)]] [[User_talk:KrytenKoro|<small>Bully!</small>]] 15:00, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
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| Wait, if it had Terra's mind, how did it not recognize Sora?[[User:Neo Bahamut|Neo Bahamut]] 02:30, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
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| What's there to recognize? terra only saw sora once for about 5 minutes on Destiny islands, and even then, his attention was on Riku, not sora, not to mention that was 10 years ago. Sora kinda grew a bit since the last time Terra saw him.--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 02:54, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
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| I might concede to that logic if this wasn't the same series where Riku can somehow tell that someone from another world needs to enter Sora's heart. At age 10. With no other information than that Sora had a stray tear. Now. Tell me you didn't recognize the kid as Sora when you first saw him. He looks almost exactly the same. He even has the same hair style. Hard to forget seeing Goku IRL. But, really, my biggest hang-up isn't so much that he couldn't tell exactly who the kid was, but who he WASN'T. Mistaking Sora for Xehanort? Really?[[User:Neo Bahamut|Neo Bahamut]] 03:13, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
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| actually Riku was 5, but good point, as for Terra again, 5 minutes, one time, 10 years ago, as a child, wasn't really paying attention to him. We recognized him because we know sora, we played 3 full games as Sora. we recognize him as an important person. of course we'd recognize him. terra did none of these with sora. now as for LS, he's Terra's mind in a suit of armor. do you have any idea what 10 years, all alone, doing absolutely nothing but brood and rage, will do to a human mind? I don't think it's that hard to imagine him being just a bit delusional, do you? if anything, it's amazing that the dilusion broke at all--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 03:22, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
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| It's not that you make a bad point, it's just that Riku suddenly being the Zen Master is constantly in the back of my head undermining it. Also, if Riku was 5, Sora was like 4. He's the oldest of the trio.[[User:Neo Bahamut|Neo Bahamut]] 03:55, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
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| That's the thing, he ''was'' 4. Birth by Sleep takes place 10 years before KH1, and if sora was 14 in KH1 and if Riku was 15, well i'm pretty sure you can do the math. as for Riku being a Zen Master, all i can say is that just because Riku has kickass perception doesn't mean that everyone else in the Kingdom Hearts Universe does too, and again, it is quite possible that LS was a little crazy when Sora first ncountered him--{{User:ShadowsTwilight/Sig}} 04:02, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
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| That's even worse. But my thing is that it's hard to recognize any sensible-sounding argument on a character's mental state after that happens. It's like...if a 4 year old can know something like that, all of the rules suddenly fly out of the window. Ansem the Wise spends years of research on crap like this & I bet he doesn't know it's possible.[[User:Neo Bahamut|Neo Bahamut]] 05:37, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
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