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| {{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}} | | {{Forumheader|The World that Never was}} |
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| <!-- Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with either your talk page template or four tildes ~~~~ --> | | <!-- Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with either your talk page template or four tildes ~~~~ --> |
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| *"Fairy Godmother: Strong rays of sun create dark shadows. Sadly, Lady Tremaine and both her daughters are jealous of Cinderella's charm and beauty, qualities that appear to you as "light." Jealousy is darkness. Light and dark go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other."{{KHBbS}} | | *"Fairy Godmother: Strong rays of sun create dark shadows. Sadly, Lady Tremaine and both her daughters are jealous of Cinderella's charm and beauty, qualities that appear to you as "light." Jealousy is darkness. Light and dark go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other."{{KHBbS}} |
| ;Master Eraqus >> Eraqus | | ;Master Eraqus >> Eraqus |
| ***"Eraqus" (''Ensemble''){{KHR}}
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| ***"Master Eraqus"{{KHBbS}} | | ***"Master Eraqus"{{KHBbS}} |
| **"Terra, an aspiring Keyblade Master, had been training diligently under Master Eraqus along with his best friends Aqua and Ventus (whom they called Ven)."{{KHBbS}} | | **"Terra, an aspiring Keyblade Master, had been training diligently under Master Eraqus along with his best friends Aqua and Ventus (whom they called Ven)."{{KHBbS}} |
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| *"Flora: Now, Phillip. The road to true love may be barred by many more dangers which you alone will have to face."{{KHBbS}} | | *"Flora: Now, Phillip. The road to true love may be barred by many more dangers which you alone will have to face."{{KHBbS}} |
| ;Leon >> Squall Leonhart | | ;Leon >> Squall Leonhart |
| ***"Leon"{{KHR}}
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| ***"Leon" (''Ensemble''){{KHR}}
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| ***"Squall" (''Dissidia Ensemble''){{KHR}}
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| **"Later, Leon would fight against the forces of darkness more than once, but thanks to Sora, he can now focus on rebuilding his home."{{KHR}}
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| ###''He no longer uses his real name, a symbolic farewell to the little boy who was not strong enough.''{{KHR}}
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| *"The name's...Leon."{{KHR}} | | *"The name's...Leon."{{KHR}} |
| ;Cloud > Cloud Strife | | ;Cloud > Cloud Strife |
| ***"Cloud"{{KHR}}
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| ***"Cloud" (''Ensemble''){{KHR}}
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| ***''Cloud'' (KHR Ultimania)
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| **"Believing himself weak, Cloud sought out the secrets of a hero's strength, as well as the secrets darkness might hold. Hades tried to use these desires against him, but once Cloud realized he was being manipulated, he wisely joined forces with Sora and Hercules."{{KHR}}
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| **"With the Coliseum a tangle of bugs and Cloud a tangle of emotional issues, he ought to have found a way, but Sora showed up just in time to show HIM up, and prove once again that sliminess doesn't pay."{{KHR}}
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| **"His first idea: sweet-talking a swordsman named Cloud into striking Sora and Hercules down. His second idea: betraying Cloud, by taking a potshot at all three of them while they were distracted. Understandably displeased, Cloud decided to cast his lot with Sora and Hercules instead."{{KHR}}
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| *"Cloud."{{KHR}} | | *"Cloud."{{KHR}} |
| *"Hey, isn't that... Cloud!"{{KHR}} | | *"Hey, isn't that... Cloud!"{{KHR}} |
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| "It is my personal opinion that we go with what the journal entries call the respective characters and just leave the bloody articles ALONE for once instead of drastically overthinking things" | | "It is my personal opinion that we go with what the journal entries call the respective characters and just leave the bloody articles ALONE for once instead of drastically overthinking things" |
| *As I said, the journal entries, ultimanias, etc., are not consistent, and we already ignore them for stuff like Experiment 626 or Mickey Mouse (instead of calling him "The King" or "King Mickey". "Following academic MoS when the scripts allow it" is not "throwing out the policy". | | *As I said, the journal entries, ultimanias, etc., are not consistent, and we already ignore them for stuff like Experiment 626. "Following academic MoS when the scripts allow it" is not "throwing out the policy". |
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| By the way, my username is one word, KrytenKoro. It's not a first name and a last name, it's one word.}} | | By the way, my username is one word, KrytenKoro. It's not a first name and a last name, it's one word.}} |
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| *Yes, it absolutely is. I'm appalled that this is still a point of confusion, I've been trying to hammer this point in for years. | | *Yes, it absolutely is. I'm appalled that this is still a point of confusion, I've been trying to hammer this point in for years. |
| }} | | }} |
| {{Uxie|time=04:07, 26 May 2012 (UTC)|luna=Well if it is, why arn't there any articles on characters such as Kiara or Bootstrap, or articles on each area in a world? In fact, if we were like what I said, then the Gullwings would be seperated into Yuna, Rikku, Paine. Plus there would be articles on Sora's parents. If you want to do this, then don't forget to make this wiki in past tence, since your ideals seem to be heading towards the Sci-Fi wiki style. <s>If that happens, UxieLover1994 will be out of here for good.</s> Ignore this, please.}} | | {{Uxie|time=04:07, 26 May 2012 (UTC)|luna=Well if it is, why arn't there any articles on characters such as Kiara or Bootstrap, or articles on each area in a world? In fact, if we were like what I said, then the Gullwings would be seperated into Yuna, Rikku, Paine. Plus there would be articles on Sora's parents. If you want to do this, then don't forget to make this wiki in past tence, since your ideals seem to be heading towards the Sci-Fi wiki style. If that happens, UxieLover1994 will be out of here for good.}} |
| {{KrytenKoro|Jeezus, Uxie, enough with pulling accusations out of your rear and making pointless ultimatums.
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| The Gullwings article covers everything about those characters, and there are redirects pointing to them. "Articles for everything" is not the same as "every possible thing gets a separate page".
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| That Bootstrap and Kiara currently redirect to a character gallery is unfortunate (there should be at least something summarizing their role), but they still have working redirects. Furthermore, it's ludicrous to say "because the wiki is not currently perfected, it's not allowed to be perfected".
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| In any case; whether we stick to the current policy (which is very poorly and unevenly enforced) or go with the new one, Dr. Jumba's article needs to be moved, as "Jookiba" is in both the script and journal entry. As for Barbossa, the article's lead currently says "Hector Barbossa", so if that's wrong it needs to be burned with fire.}}
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| {{Uxie|time=10:23, 26 May 2012 (UTC)|zoe=So sorry for annoying you. I thought that you were to go against the journal. Yeah, the policy needs to be updated (<small>Por lo menos para asegurarse de que todo lo relacionado con la selva profunda, pero los enemigos y el trío están en tiempo pasado</small>) to suit with the new form articles and, of course, the new style we're going through.
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| As for Barbossa, I suggest on changing it to just Barbossa, or Captain Barbossa as per his journal entry.}}
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| {{ShardofTruth|time=21:12, 26 May 2012 (UTC)|talk=I agree that the titles can be quite confusing sometimes, especially Mickey's. But I don't think a simple ruleset (drop royality, master and captain, keep the mr./mrs./dr.) will work out in every case. I think going by the latest journal entry's title is the best idea, although we might have to move some articles every new game then. Also is "Charming" really a name? I always thought it was a description.}}
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| {{Asif|sho=I think the problem with this argument is that each title holds a different meaning for this subject, meaning that it isn't reasonable to make one rule about titles and have it apply for every article. For example, while I think that pages for Aqua and Riku aren't in need of the "Master" title in their titles, keeping the "Master" title in Master Xehanort's article would alleviate much confusion for other users. A person could search for "Xehanort" and be directed to the page about Master Xehanort instead of Terra-Xehanort, the one they are looking for. This is an issue that needs to be looked at for every article separately from each other, because if we did make rules, we would have to build in so many exceptions that having them would be pointless.
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| I also propose that we set a time limit as to how long discussion we have about each article, assuming there is disagreement between users. Seriously, the debate about Terra-Xehanort was ridiculous- some people are ''still'' unhappy with the chosen name. (Note that this is NOT an invitation to begin that debate again). I propose a seven-day maximum discussion and voting session per each article. I also think that the end time needs to be clearly written- there was confusion with the voting for Terra-Xehanort, because people didn't know when the voting period ended.
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| I know that this seems a little bit too much, but keep in mind that we won't necessarily have to do this for every article if there is no discussion- or if a compromise can be reached. It's not a perfect solution, but at this point I think it's the only one that's feasible for this type of situation.
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| On a related note, could we somehow add these titles to the "Other Names" section of the character template for each? I don't think it will be necessary for every article, but for pages like Mickey's (Mickey Mouse, King Mickey, Master Mickey, etc.) it might be a good way to compromise on this issue- keep the title out of the article name and use it in the template instead.
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| Thoughts?}}
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| {{Xion4ever|time=05:23, 27 May 2012 (UTC)|talktext=Easy, guys and gals. Easy.
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| @Shard: Charming is normally used as an adjective/verb. However, some older fairytales and/or stories have used charming as a name. I suppose they were saying "Prince is charming." Instead of saying "Prince Albert was very charming." Or something like that. Perhaps "This Prince is Charming" instead of saying "Prince so-and-so is charming" every time?
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| Personally, I would like to follow the names the recent journal entries give us. And- well, pretty much what Shard and Asif said about that.
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| I disagree though on the time limit idea. Not that I disagree that some [previously closed/settled] discussions should be reopened (no reference, by the way...seriously). It's just that I personally don't like a constriction or set time for users to discuss/debate/rally support, and all that jazz. There is, or was, a general unwritten rule that a lot of users used to know and follow about discussions: if it's a couple of weeks old since the last post, chances are the discussion is closed and shouldn't be edited. Simply put, this is a Wiki. We have new users, ideas, and the like throughout each day. To deny someone their right to input on a discussion just because they missed the alotted discussion time is...well, rather wrong. As for voting: a formal voting process isn't needed for every discussion. Sometimes a [[Talk:Moogle Shop|discussion]] is as easy as one or two people saying "Yes, I think we should do what <user> proposed." There is new input and answers to a discussion one day, and some lacking the next. A set timelimit is a nice proposition, but one I feel will be more tedious and troubling than properly handing a discussion and, should it occur, a rediscussion. Similar to what happened on [[Terra-Xehanort]]'s talk page. The topic was reopened, discussion was held again, the previous decision stands. Everyone had their input, outside of a time limit, and everything worked out. No elaborate posting of voting periods/polls (don't use polls, at least not the old coding- not going into that), users upset because they couldn't have their say because they were grounded from the computer for a week, and all that.}}
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| {{KrytenKoro|For other names: the "Alias" parameter in the infobox should be used for that purpose. They can also appear in the lead.
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| For Xehanort: when I merged, I dropped "Master" after asking the people present in the IRC, because obviously the young form isn't a Keyblade Master. We also have numerous people just calling him Xehanort, like Yen Sid or sometimes Nomura. Obviously, I don't think it will be possible to go by the latest journal entry for him (Unknown/Master Xehanort or Young Xehanort/Master Xehanort?) and except for Eraqus, every other single Keyblade Master's article does not have that title. The issue is, as always, open for discussion, but I think it would be quite irregular and confusing to be calling the article "Master Xehanort" and then trying to set a dichotomy between the Master and Young forms within the article. Again, open for discussion (on that talk page).
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| As for this forum: We still have three games to check for sources. It seems like ENX is suggesting "use the name of the latest English journal entry" for each character, which is acceptable, although it will cause us to move articles each time a new game comes out. On the other hand, my suggestion would make them more stable, but requires more of our own decision-making and a touch of arbitrariness. This probably will need to be settled with a vote once we have all the quote mining done (it would be helpful if somebody could help maggosh with that).}}
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