Editing Forum:The Merge

{{Forumheader|The World that Never was}}

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{{Asif|sho=The voting at the Keyhole has been closed. By a margin of one vote, the wiki has decided to merge with us. This, of course, means that a lot of things will change. This forum is designed to address all of them. Feel free to make a new thread about a topic you want to discuss.

This forum is for '''all users- both from khwiki.net and the Keyhole'''. Do not feel afraid to add your opinion; no matter how new to either wiki you are, your voice will be heard.}}

==The Rules==
{{Asif|sho=One of the largest concerns users of the Keyhole have about this wiki is the fear that they will be called out for editing too much and be labeled "wiki princesses". The IRC is of course always available for usage, but since there are some people (like RoxasXIIILK) who have certain circumstances, I believe all users should be allowed to socialize as much as they want to on their user pages- so long as they continue to make quality edits (which are not necessarily connected to their quantity). Anyone who doesn't should get a friendly reminder to make more mainspace edits- '''not''' to stop socializing. Chronic lack of mainspace edits compared to userspace edits should result in repeated reminders, until eventually a staff member finds it suitable to give the user a warning. Thoughts?}}
{{SilverCrono|time=06:07, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|text=I actually don't remember anybody getting in trouble for using their talk pages here at all, ever.

So yeah. Let people use them. I still think the IRC is much better and generally superior, but some users can't use it or don't like it. In those cases, yeah, talk pages.

I definitely do ''not'' think people should be limited in their user talk pages, especially in a ratio to their mainspace edits (or lack therof). It reminds me of Bulbapedia, and I think their system is extremely oppressive and smothering, for lack of better words. Just remind people that mainspace and IRC are fun, but its a free wiki. People who decide not to mainspace edits absolutely do '''''not''''' need warnings. I'm sorry, but I am just against that in every way.}}
{{Chitalian8|time=06:18, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|neku= Edit as much talk as you want, as long as you don't fill the RC with it. But, yeah, IRC is a wonderful and terrible thing.}}
{{UnknownChaser|time=06:20, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|JinTalk=All right, let's lay down some discussion! :3
Well of course we should let people socialize, it is human nature to do so, we can't go around throwing away there freedom to talk with one another. We should let people talk with one another through their talk pages, as long as it don't become too used (I.e something 10 talk pages edit in 20 minutes) and too much. We have the interweb and that site the cool kids are using now adays (I think its call myspace) and the email for a reason. If the person don't overused the socialization that much and tries to edit in the mainstream and help, then we should be good, but of it becomes too much, then we should do something. But main point, we should (even though we do) allow more socialization.}}
{{KrytenKoro|"It reminds me of Bulbapedia, and I think their system is extremely oppressive and smothering, for lack of better words." -- Yeah, that annoys me too. Personally, as long as chatting doesn't ''obstruct'' getting work done, I have no problem with it. Like, if people are trying to get work going on the Sora article, for instance, I would be annoyed if people keep distracting from that by adding all sorts of chatty topics to the page. But otherwise, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

Just a thing: for user fanart kind of thing (like for talkboxes), it's actually easier to just use a direct link than to reupload all of that here. I think I modded Master Vantius's talk template accordingly, you can check it for details.}}
{{LightRoxas|samus=If this merge is gonna work out, we pretty much ''have'' to let them use talk pages without much limit. I don't think we are really that strict on this subject, as I have socialized before and never had any trouble, but that seems to be the main focus of unrest. As long as they aren't doing 50 talk page edits within an hour, it should be fine.}}
{{17m|text=I agree we can let the users talk as much as they want as long as it get in the way of getting works done. It's not like kittens will die every time someone chats on the wiki. But we should encourage the use of IRC more, as it is, as Silversey put it, more superior. Maybe even put up a sitenotice for using IRC if it's really necessary.}}

{{Sove|time=17:08, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|roxastalk=People can be reminded to mark their edits as minor edits, if they are having a talk page conversation, that is not wiki related. This would hide the edits (from RC) for those, who have show minor edits off, it can be turned on and off at RC at any time. IPs can't mark edits as minor, so IP vandals will still always show up in RC.}}

==Merging Content==
{{Asif|shonormal=Or really, how should we go about doing it? Should we use the same format as the audit? Who will organize everything? And how will we make sure the merge gets done? Anything about that should go here.}}
{{Chitalian8|time=06:19, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|neku= It was decided that it would simply be the "best from both sites" regarding article content. This'll be no easy task, as it will take a long time to simply judge content. So, audit the second. However, from there, it's just users copy-pasting what the staff tells them to copy-paste. With the added manpower, it shouldn't take as long as the audit did.}}
{{LightRoxas|text=Yeah, if we just deal everything out alphabetically like the audit, I think we've got enough users that things should run smoothly. The hardest job is gonna rest on the staff, as they will likely be the ones who have to determine which content comes and which doesn't.}}
{{17m|text=Like Chitalian said, best of both wikis. I remember we agreed to allow renders and quote pages here. Also maybe some articles and revisions (for example, I personally like [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Symbols_in_the_Kingdom_Hearts_universe their version of Symbols in the Kingdom Hearts Universe] more than [[Symbols of the Kingdom Hearts series|ours]].)}}

==What the Keyhole Should Become==
{{Asif|sho=Yes, the general plan has been to make the Keyhole a fansite. But how will we differentiate it from the others out there? And how will we get people to go from there to here? Discuss!}}
{{Chitalian8|time=06:22, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|nekutalk= I'm thinking templates at the top of the page, or maybe sitenotices, though that might catch wikia's attention too quick. Also, we need people actually monitoring the site so it actually becomes what we planned this time.}}
{{UnknownChaser|time=06:26, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|JinTalk=This time, it '''will''' follow in it's plan to become a fan site, like it was meant to be. Simple, there already doing it, merging article to one big one, creating "fan pages" (I.e. Dead Fantasy). The plan is that, I'm guessing to leave a big messages saying to go to this site for more on depth coverage of articles.}}
{{SilverCrono|time=06:29, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|text=That is all well and good, Chaser. <small><small><small>Also fuck you for edit conflicting me.</small></small></small> Will the Keyhole fansite get different staffers, considering (hopefully) lots of people will move to .net? }}
{{Asif|shonormal=I think we should use a mix of .net and Keyhole users as admins, or at least start that way. If we do choose users who join the fansite after this merge, they ''have'' to be on good terms with this wiki, or at least want us to remain connected. The last thing we want is for there to be admins who are users only on the fansite who decide to break away from us because they don't see our relationship being mutually beneficial.}}
{{LightRoxas|text=Is there any way to do outright redirects? For example, if someone searched "Sora" on the Keyhole, it would automatically take them to the article here? Something tells me wikia wouldn't like that, and I don't know if it would even work, but we technically wouldn't be deleting any content.}}
{{17m|text= Wait, I thought wikia already knew The Keyhole was turning into a fansite? And as for staffs we should held a voting that includes users from .net and the Keyhole that are, what As if! said, happy with the merge and has absolutely no problem with it.}}

==What Should Be Left Behind==
{{Asif|shonormal=The Dreadnaught and Puzzling Arena (sorry, LA) should both be left behind in my opinion, not because I don't want them here, but because I'm afraid if we leave nothing at wikia then no one will visit it and there will be no flow of new users here. The same goes for the walkthrough, for the above reason and because it is fanon and therefore really doesn't belong on a website that is all about Kingdom Hearts canon. Any other discussion about this should go here.}}
{{UnknownChaser|time=06:36, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|JinTalk=We should leave those over there as it is theirs, so to speak and that they would be better over there if it becomes more fan-ish. Keep the walkthrough separated, theirs is more, once again fan-ish and would fit with the atmosphere over there, as ours is already good and cool :3 Also our walkthrough are more "professional", so to speak.}}
{{Chitalian8|time=06:37, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|neku= I say keep the MA/Lanes Between , but leave the PA behind. I also say to move the RP forum over. We might as well, it doesn't get all that much traffic, just the occasional update. Besides, it isn't being hosted here, so there ain't all that much harm.}}
{{LightRoxas|lea=I think it seems clear that DE wants the RP forum here. I say we do just that.}}
{{17m|text=Yes the walkthrough should be kept separated, although there's no harm in information exchanging between the walkthroughs.

Also, this may not be the right place to say it, but I really really hope we could get some helps on the walkthrough. So far, there are only a few amount of people that is into the walkthrough project and are working on them. Namely ErryK and Uxie. Yes, those are the only two that are dedicated to the project. Making Walkthroughs for 7 games WILL be tough and take a long time. Sorry again, if this is out of place.}}
{{Asif|sho=I know about the role-play taking place on a different wiki, but I just thought it would make more sense to have all the other stuff related to it on the fan site (like the main forum or the art request page). But I understand why it would be better to host it here. }}
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 {{Sove|time=17:08, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|roxastalk=People can be reminded to mark their edits as minor edits, if they are having a talk page conversation, that is not wiki related. This would hide the edits (from RC) for those, who have show minor edits off, it can be turned on and off at RC at any time. IPs can't mark edits as minor, so IP vandals will still always show up in RC.}}
-{{Dark-EnigmaXIII|time=19:27, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|Important=Personally, I dont see why there was such a ruckus over talk pages. Theorically, this merge would generate a raise of activity as well, not just on the chatting. I cannoy grasp from where came the idea that talk pages edits would be monitored. That's ridicoulous. Just let them be, as long as they dont interfere.
-as for the fan art rules and all that, we ahve pretty much the same, only that we allowed sprites for easier resize. However once (and if Soxra is allowed) to limit the size of talk bubbles like its currently done on the keyhole, that shouldnt be a problem anymore.}}
 ==Merging Content==
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 {{Chitalian8|time=06:19, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|neku= It was decided that it would simply be the "best from both sites" regarding article content. This'll be no easy task, as it will take a long time to simply judge content. So, audit the second. However, from there, it's just users copy-pasting what the staff tells them to copy-paste. With the added manpower, it shouldn't take as long as the audit did.}}
 {{LightRoxas|text=Yeah, if we just deal everything out alphabetically like the audit, I think we've got enough users that things should run smoothly. The hardest job is gonna rest on the staff, as they will likely be the ones who have to determine which content comes and which doesn't.}}
-{{17m|text=Like Chitalian said, best of both wikis. I remember we agreed to allow renders and quote pages here. Also maybe some articles and revisions (for example, I personally like [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Symbols_in_the_Kingdom_Hearts_universe their version of Symbols in the Kingdom Hearts Universe] more than [[Symbols in the Kingdom Hearts series|ours]].)}}
+{{17m|text=Like Chitalian said, best of both wikis. I remember we agreed to allow renders and quote pages here. Also maybe some articles and revisions (for example, I personally like [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Symbols_in_the_Kingdom_Hearts_universe their version of Symbols in the Kingdom Hearts Universe] more than [[Symbols of the Kingdom Hearts series|ours]].)}}
-{{Dark-EnigmaXIII|time=19:27, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|Important=It will be an overall copy-paste thing, but LR is correct on the fact that that staff will have pick what exactly is the best of both versions. An example of an article that will need to have its content merged is [[Vanitas]] with [http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Vanitas#Story wikia's]}}
 ==What the Keyhole Should Become==
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 {{LightRoxas|text=Is there any way to do outright redirects? For example, if someone searched "Sora" on the Keyhole, it would automatically take them to the article here? Something tells me wikia wouldn't like that, and I don't know if it would even work, but we technically wouldn't be deleting any content.}}
 {{17m|text= Wait, I thought wikia already knew The Keyhole was turning into a fansite? And as for staffs we should held a voting that includes users from .net and the Keyhole that are, what As if! said, happy with the merge and has absolutely no problem with it.}}
-{{{{MV|time=[[User:Master Vantius|&#123;&#123;SUBST:User:Master Vantius/Sig1&#125;&#125;]] 17:52, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|text=Since the merge is inevitable, I plan on staying on the Keyhole mostly.  I have my account here for people to reach me here too, so I can help keep the Keyhole in check.}}
-{{SidTalk|time=18:24, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|Axel= I think that the Keyhole bureaucrats, Soxra and DarkEnigmaXIII should keep their positions once the merge, happens, but I have to say that As if!'s idea is pretty good (regarding the staff). }}
-{{Dark-EnigmaXIII|time=19:27, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|Important=What The Keyhole need this time is someone to actually go there and their asses to turn it into the sister fansite we'll use to get people to know us. We already have some volunteers to do it, but we (and with "we" I mean the moving keyhole community)should have some kind of influence there, to prevent the raise of [[User:Dark-EnigmaXIII|yet another instigator]], and hopefully, prevent this issue from repeating.}}
 ==What Should Be Left Behind==
 {{Asif|shonormal=The Dreadnaught and Puzzling Arena (sorry, LA) should both be left behind in my opinion, not because I don't want them here, but because I'm afraid if we leave nothing at wikia then no one will visit it and there will be no flow of new users here. The same goes for the walkthrough, for the above reason and because it is fanon and therefore really doesn't belong on a website that is all about Kingdom Hearts canon. Any other discussion about this should go here.}}
@@ Line 55: / Line 48: @@
 Also, this may not be the right place to say it, but I really really hope we could get some helps on the walkthrough. So far, there are only a few amount of people that is into the walkthrough project and are working on them. Namely ErryK and Uxie. Yes, those are the only two that are dedicated to the project. Making Walkthroughs for 7 games WILL be tough and take a long time. Sorry again, if this is out of place.}}
 {{Asif|sho=I know about the role-play taking place on a different wiki, but I just thought it would make more sense to have all the other stuff related to it on the fan site (like the main forum or the art request page). But I understand why it would be better to host it here. }}
-{{SidTalk|time=18:28, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|Axel= I guess the walkthrough namespace should stay on the Keyhole, but if it stays here, it should be open to the public (i.e. anyone can make their own walkthrough/contribute to the main walkthrough, with a moderator assessing the quality and amount of detail put in the walkthrough(s)). As for the roleplay, it should stay on the Keyhole, since that's where it originated. The Mirage Arena should stay here, so there's something that draws in interest for the new user. }}
-{{Dark-EnigmaXIII|time=19:27, 8 January 2012 (UTC)|Important=Let me clarify somenthing: The Roleplay was made as some kind of reward for users who worked consistently with the wiki most of the time. Holding its main forum and updates in the fansite, even when its clearly a fanon event, will just attract countless of anons and newbies or inexperienced users who will demand to participate for the sake of it. Besides, it shouldnt interfere with anything, since its not a place where people go to chit chat. It's just the usual update and 2 or 3 comments regarding it. Its not really that distracting. }}