Editing Forum:The Fall of a Legend

{{Forumheader|The World that Never was}}

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{{SilverCrono|time=07:17, 22 December 2011 (UTC)|text=This will probably be my longest post ever. I'm sorry.


If you haven't noticed by now, [[User:DoorToNothing|DTN is gone. Probably forever.]] Before you continue reading, please read that page. All of it. Thank you.


First...let's start with the here and now. And let's be honest. DTN left because of ''us''. We caused this. It wasn't "life issues", or "too much real life", or "school is kicking my ass", or even "I have a life". No. It was us. All of us. The community at large. KHWiki.net and KHWikia. We drove away one of our founders ([[KHWiki:About|yes, really]]). It is our fault.

Get it? Good.


I'd like to blame this on some people, but I think DTN already did that well enough for me. Yes, he did, believe it or not. Many times have I been on the IRC and I have seen maggosh hate on DTN, despite the many times they've "made up". Back then, I just chalked it up to maggosh trying to be funny, and told myself I would tell somebody to take it to the HM later. But there is no later. It's too late. He's gone now. I am as much to blame for this as anybody.


Before pointing fingers, we must look at ourselves. How many times have we said we've hated DTN? How many times have we told him to "STFU"? How many times have we rolled our eyes at his Homestuck references, or, or, his YGOTAS jokes? Hm? Don't bother answering. We all know how many times. ''Too many''. This was a man dedicated to us. Against his better judgement. This was a man who played the saxophone (quite well, apparently), this was a man destined to greatness in his future. This was a man still brewing in his education, almost in the prime of his youth. This was a man who decided to give up his free time editing on a wiki about a goddamn video game, for Christ's sake. He spent years on a website about information on weapon and dungeons... in a fracking video game.


And the sad part? He did it ''well''.


So well, in fact, that we promoted him. We thought he edited so well that we voted him to get powers and a badge of honor. Yes, us, the community. This isn't Soviet Russia. We voted and chose him. Sure, right now, you may be saying "I wasn't there, I'm new! I never wanted him that high!" But you know. If you were a user then, you probably would have voted for him. You can't even lie. You know he is a good editor.


As I may have stated on the IRC multiple times, he was indeed good at his job. He handled administration well, he edited well, he was trustworthy to get things done. But he wasn't the best of people himself. Oh no, child, nononono. He was an idiot, sometimes making stupid statements about things that were so ''stupid'' that it made you cringe. He made the worst jokes... some so bad that you had to laugh at him, not at the joke. And he took things too damn far, that sumbitch. Do you know how long ago YGOTAS jokes got old? We don't fucking like card games, we don't like motorcycles, stop combining the two. Nobody read Homestuck, stop talking about how weird human culture is. And 8s don't count as Bs, you went to school and you know that dammit. Do you know how many times he's told me to "go back to my corner" in the IRC? Do you know how many times he called me "Corno"? Those jokes were never funny. ''I don't even fucking like corn.''


But we aren't any better people. No, we are not. Shortly after DTN was elected, people started hating. As the African-American rappers like to say in America, "haters gonna hate". I can name just a few "haters" off the back of my hand. ENX, Maggosh, DM, Auror... you may not recognize these names, but I do. And DTN sure did. But the part I don't get is that they elected him to office. They ''voted for DTN''. AND YET THEY HATED HIM. Why put somebody in a position, only to quickly complain how unfit for the job they are? This reminds me of America. We voted for Obama, yet soooo many people hate him. What? Just...what?


I may be wrong about this system. I'm probably making a fool of myself. Hell, you probably aren't even reading anymore. You also probably want to know where I am going with this. I...I don't even know, bro. I don't know if I'm saying that our hierarchy system is corrupted, or that America's government sucks, or even if I'm writing something for DTN's "funeral". But I do know what I am saying. We have to change, somehow.


We are merging. There isn't even a question. It's going to happen soon, we all know it. For this past year, we've been under a "civil war", of sorts. (Yes, I know we haven't been in a wiki war. It's a fracking metaphor, dammit, go along with it you asstard.) And now we're returning. The Confederacy is coming back to the Union. We will be one people again, one community. Except we won't, because there will still be two wikis. But anyway. Our community is forming together again. But everytime we have a forum discussing something, we are apart. People disagree. People argue. People hate. I guess this is to be expected of humans, silly little things we are, but it doesn't seem to form one community, in my eyes. Yes, I know I am a part of this myself. Yes, I know I am being foolish. Hear me out.


We're not even together in our "hate" in DTN. The "DTN Hate Club" has been around as long as anybody can remember. It probably doesn't even formally exist, but we have all been in it at one time or two. We've all stated how much we've disliked DTN. Even our trusted leaders, such as DarkEnigma or Soxra. Even me, dammit. I'll admit it. I hate DTN sometimes. Why do we do this? Please, just tell me... why do we hate him so much? Why can't we all just get along?


I guess I'm rambling, huh? I'm sorry. I just want this to change. So badly. I want to succeed, I want Chitalian to succeed, I want Kryten to succeed, I want the .net to succeed, I want the whole damn internet to succeed dammit. But I know we can't, as is our nature. There is nothing we can do that fix that.


Except there is. Look inside your heart. Look inside you. Try to find yourself. See what you have done wrong. I can't help anybody but myself. The same goes for you. The only person you can fix is yourself.


I haven't made many good points in this rant. I have probably just created text that nobody to read. Even so, I'm not sure what to say anymore, but the words keep flowing.


In DTN's last words to me on IRC, he said some cryptic stuff. I would post them here, but I fear it will defile them. I didn't get it then, but after some thinking and this huge post, I finally see what I have to do. He has basically named me his successor. He has told me that in his stead, I have to do what he wanted to do. That's why I made this forum. To try to change myself. And you. And everybody here. (Yes...even you, Kakarot...)


As much as we all hate him, we all know he was somebody great. And now he is gone. I implore you, please, find it in your heart to be sorry. And please, don't let anything like this happen again. How can we merge when our own community is splintering around us? 


Goodbye, DoorToNothing. You will be missed.}}
{{Uxie|time=07:49, 22 December 2011 (UTC)|text=Poor DTN. It's horrible that we drove him away like this. I always thought he was really nice, but now some of us drove him away. I'm also going to miss him. :'(}}
{{Chitalian8|time=15:29, 22 December 2011 (UTC)|nekusad= I'm sorry it came to this, DTN. I like to think that the people who respected you outnumbered your haters. I would tell you to just walk the hate right off, but it seems you've made your decision. Farewell, and maybe you could find it in your heart to return in the future.}}
That's really sad. DTN was always very blunt and upfront, pointing directly at the problem, not glossing over it. I can't say I liked this attitude in every situation, but at least it was honest and (more or less) well-meant. He earned his potition at this wiki and the former, because he is a great editor and had good ideas to move our cause forward. I never understand where all the hostility came from, because you could always talk to him about the controversies you had with him, at least that's my experience.
On the other hand I'm not a frequent vistor of the irc channels and don't really know what's going on there (and only care to a minimal extent). That's why such dramas as the (still unsolved?) Erry vs. DTN debate really irritate me. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you don't have to be everybody's friend to enjoy the wiki, but the constant accusations of some users are childish and out of place. I wish I'd have said that to maggosh yesterday. --[[User:ShardofTruth|ShardofTruth]] 17:11, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

{{Asif|shosad=Moral of the story (and a rule that everyone should follow always):

<big><big><big><big><big>'''BE CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU SAY ON THE'''

'''INTERNET. NO MATTER HOW FAR AWAY YOU'''

'''MAY BE FROM THE PERSON YOU ARE TALKING'''

'''ABOUT, (S)HE WILL TAKE OFFENSE IF YOU SAY'''

'''BAD THINGS ABOUT HIM/HER.'''</big></big></big></big></big>

Seriously, it's the INTERNET. Everyone can see what you post. Don't think that you can get away with talking behind people's backs here- even on the IRC. Someone will inevitably see it or log it or talk about it, and it will spread until everyone can see it. What you write might as well be public. So watch what you write. Always.}}

{{Soxra|text=Since that was obviously aimed at DE and myself, I will go ahead and just say that you completely misunderstood the point of what he and I were saying.

We never said anything remotely like, "We dislike DTN as a user/person."  And now, particularly from you, As If, it makes us look like we disrespect people just for the fun of it, and do it behind their backs to get some kind of sick thrill. In all honesty, that's incredibly disrespectful of you to suggest that without even knowing [http://pastebin.com/RM1YRsW9 the facts (clicky)]. I had no intentions of attempting to hide what I said; it was a fair assessment of how I believed him to have treated us. I would never blatantly disrespect another Wiki member like you suggest, and if you think I would, you seriously have never taken the time to know me. And I can say the same for DE, as well.

I maintain that I have no qualms about my words, and the logs above are enough to show why we said what we said. Nevertheless, I want to enforce that we have nothing against DTN as a contributor, editor, or as a person; we simply disagree with how he handles (handled?) his responsibilities.|time={{User:Soxra/Sig|t=9:40pm, December 22, 2011 (UTC)}}}}

{{Asif|shosad=Clarifying:

My above comment was directed at anyone and everyone who reads this forum, not just one or two specific people. It's a lesson I think everyone should know. 

Also, I did not mean it only like that. I kinda forgot this part, but anything you say on the Internet is simply text. There is no tone or other vocal and visual clues to help you understand what you're trying to say. That's why things are often interpreted differently on the Internet from what you meant. Therefore if you type something- anything, really- it may come off as rude and mean to the right person. That's why it's especially important in the Internet that you watch what you say and carefully word your comments- otherwise things like this can happen. }}
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-{{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}}
+{{Forumheader|The World that Never was}}
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 Also, I did not mean it only like that. I kinda forgot this part, but anything you say on the Internet is simply text. There is no tone or other vocal and visual clues to help you understand what you're trying to say. That's why things are often interpreted differently on the Internet from what you meant. Therefore if you type something- anything, really- it may come off as rude and mean to the right person. That's why it's especially important in the Internet that you watch what you say and carefully word your comments- otherwise things like this can happen. }}
-{{LightRoxas|text=DTN, you were a great editor, very funny at times (I will miss Boop!) and I always thought of you as invincible. It is hard to see that anyone could have hurt you, and although you have claimed you will never return, I hope you might someday. Your work and dedication to this place has always been inspiring.
-@Sox: I don't think As If was accusing you of anything... he was simply saying that what you post on the Internet does have an effect. While I know that you were only saying you disagreed with his leadership methods, DTN did not know this. I don't blame you for anything; I realize it as an unfortunate misunderstanding and turn of events.
-Now excuse me while I make a Room Core Talk Bubble in honor of the hero.}}
-{{Maggosh|nathan=Please read this: http://www.khwiki.net/Forum:At_Least_It_Was_Here_-_A_formal_apology}}
-"[22:21:17] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> If we're getting new staff from scratch, he just hope he is not re-elected
-[22:21:25] <Dark-EnigmaXIII> *I just hope"
-...
-"[22:21:46] <Sox|Simba> i agree with DE. i dont like DTN's management style or his treatment of users, .net or otherwise"
-{{LA|Vtext='''''I did not hate Doorsey.'''''}}
-{{LightRoxas|lucky=There's probably a lot of redundancy to ensue here, but anyways, I'd love it if you all were to come sign this [[User:LightRoxas/Memorial for DTN|memorial]] here. It would mean a lot. Boop.}}