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| {{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}} | | {{Forumheader|The World that Never was}} |
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| <big><big>'''SPECIAL INTER-WIKI ROUNDTABLE THIS TUESDAY, DECEMBER 27th'''</big></big> | | <big><big>'''SPECIAL INTER-WIKI ROUNDTABLE THIS FRIDAY, DECEMBER 23rd'''</big></big> |
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| The roundtable is currently set to be held on #KHWiki-noticeboard. Staff from both KHWiki.net and the Keyhole are '''''strongly''''' encouraged to attend, if at all possible. The rest of our users are also welcome to attend, but we ask that if you do so, you conduct yourself appropriately. This is looking to be a long and complex process, so we need to keep serious on it. '''''In particular, there will be a zero-drama policy.''''' If you're attending and you have drama, be sure to dump it before you come by. | | The roundtable is currently set to be held on #KHWiki-noticeboard. Staff from both KHWiki.net and the Keyhole are '''''strongly''''' encouraged to attend, if at all possible. The rest of our users are also welcome to attend, but we ask that if you do so, you conduct yourself appropriately. This is looking to be a long and complex process, so we need to keep serious on it. '''''In particular, there will be a zero-drama policy.''''' If you're attending and you have drama, be sure to dump it before you come by. |
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| The roundtable covered these topics: | | The roundtable will cover such topics as: |
| *'''The combining of Staffs''': Should be decided on a forum to be created later, due to the need for all staff members to give input on it. | | *The combining of Staffs |
| *'''Merging article content''': Best parts of each wiki's articles should be merged; A veritable "second audit" to judge each wiki's content will be necessary. | | *Merging article content |
| **'''Includes the use of tabbed subpages''': Will be utilized for quotes, gallery, and boss page (if applicable) | | **Includes the use of tabbed subpages |
| *'''Images and renders''': All of DE's renders will be kept, will substitute an infobox image if and only if the infobox image is of subpar quality. Other places for the images (E.g. boss pages, ability sections) will be discussed further. | | *Images and renders |
| *'''Fusing policies''': A generally more relaxed nature, possible tweaking of the MoS. Minor speculation may be allowed in Trivia sections, but will be kept to a minimum. To be discussed further. | | *Fusing policies |
| *'''Template and other general issues regarding coding''': To be discussed at the follow-up meeting. | | *Template and other general issues regarding coding |
| **'''Includes Main Page revamp''' | | **Includes Main Page revamp |
| *'''Combining Forums''': The Beach and Seat of War forums will be scratched, possible creation of a "Cornerstone Hill" page - a page giving tips and tricks to certain aspects of the series. To be discussed further. | | *Combining Forums |
| *'''Walkthrough space''': To be discussed at the follow-up meeting. | | *Walkthrough space |
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| Thank you for your patience. We look forward to getting our community back together! | | Thank you for your patience. We look forward to getting our community back together! |
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| {{KrytenKoro|"After we choose ONE b-crat from The Keyhole, he or she can replace Kryten once he has been demoted as requested." | | {{KrytenKoro|"After we choose ONE b-crat from The Keyhole, he or she can replace Kryten once he has been demoted as requested." |
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| Yeah, I said that was only on the table if we threw out the current staff and ran elections from scratch. | | Yeah, I said that was only on the table if we threw out the current staff and ran elections from scratch.}} |
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| Also:
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| "The idea of remerging makes me ask "What was the point of us separating from Wikia in the first place?" I mean, is it really so hard to use Oasis? Sure it's not Monaco, but..."
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| Just in case anyone else has this entirely incorrect impression: '''''<big>This merge discussion is not about going back to wikia. It is about bringing the wikia community over here and going back to the original plan.</big>'''''}}
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| {{LA|Vtext=Logs, courtesy of UnknownChaser.
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| Part 1: http://pastebin.com/uYQ1UNjN
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| Part 2: http://pastebin.com/4drnZ4mr
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| Part 3: http://pastebin.com/nEDJ00xY
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| }}
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| {{MV|time=[[User:Master Vantius|{{SUBST:User:Master Vantius/Sig1}}]] 04:56, 24 December 2011 (UTC)|text=I am posting this on '''both''' wikis.
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| After being at the meeting briefly, I got the impression that the Keyhole will be left to its own devices again when the merge happens. So, I got an idea.
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| Why can't both wikis be extensions of each other. The Keyhole be the fanbased and .net be the encyclopedia. They share an over arching staff, and have smaller local staff to see day-to-day ops. This could promote a real "community" feel.
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| If you think this is a bad idea say so.}}
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| {{Chitalian8|time=05:50, 24 December 2011 (UTC)|neku= [http://pastebin.com/ACbtDuba This] is a log which serves two purposes: It discusses the points in which the roundtable hit on, as well as showcasing Kryten's opinions. Please read, it's a condensed version of Chaser's massive logs.}}
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| {{KrytenKoro|Going to give a short summary:
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| First off, regarding any changes to the trivia sections, everyone needs to read [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/User:Repowers#Why_I_hate_your_writing this].
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| Second off, we should be looking at the tfwiki for a good model of how to make a ''successful'' wiki that is both comprehensive and fun to edit. As some evidence of how successful they are at this...half of their senior editors have contributed to the franchise itself. Their wiki has gotten to the point that ''the wiki itself'' is pretty much part of the franchise.
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| Okay, specific points:
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| *Music: KHWiki already has most of the music, thanks to Erry, and we already have it in the Enemy infoboxes (or at least, we have the files and the coding to add them). If the infoboxes simply need to be populated, that's fine.
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| *DE's renders: I don't see any problem with using the fan-animated renders on the boss articles, or any other sections where they would not be totally redundant to existing images. My issue with using them in the lead where it's not absolutely necessary, is that it makes the wiki seem vain. The lead images are supposed to be the main representation of the subject, and using images created by any of us in place of the officially released and published images makes it seem like we are claiming that we are better than SE themselves. Although it's still SE's material, and so is not actually fanart, it gives off kind of the same feel as when you go to a wikipedia article for something like "hipster" and the main image is one that a person has taken of themselves and posted so that they can be the lead image. When the official image simply doesn't illustrate all that the renders can, that's a perfect situation to use a render. Otherwise, they need to stick to the Gallery or the boss pages.
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| *Speculation: A long, long time ago, I posted the second note on the [[Dive to the Heart]] article. I'm totally okay with relevant and well-supported or simply factual stuff like [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_%28G1%29#Notes this]. However.
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| **Any speculation we add needs to be completely distinct from the canon and non-debatable facts of the article. Keeping it in a section like "Other appearances" or "Notes" is fine. (Also, we need to totally get rid of "Trivia" and rename it "Notes", because naming it trivia is an invitation to it being filled with trash). Also, regarding the "Lock-On" fiasco -- that was because the change proposed ''affected the entire article and was making a direct claim of truth for something that was unsupported''. We have a long-standing policy of allowing similar claims within the "other appearances" section (see [[Zantetsuken]]), so...yeah. We already had an established and perfectly open way to do it without making a non-supported claim of fact.
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| **Again, I am personally fine with relaxing our "no speculation" policy as long as the speculation ''is confined to a specific section and clearly defined as speculation''. When I first joined the wiki, I spent what must be a year and a half cleaning up obviously false info that had been left there because people speculated, and the claims were accepted as true or forgotten. [[13 Mushroom]] and [[Two Across]] is a particularly shameful example of not only the wiki but the entire community accepting blatantly false info that was easily checkable, simply because people speculated irresponsibly and people let it stand. The Zeldawiki also has a healthy policy where theories are detailed on the page, but clearly marked, and eradicated if proven false.
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| ***So again, well-written speculation is perfectly fine, but under no circumstances should it be placed or written so that it appears to be a claim of fact.
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| *Ability articles: I can't find any actual ability articles in Oathoblivion's contributions that khwiki doesn't have. However, if we don't have an article for an official ability, we should absolutely have it.
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| *Merging items/armor into a single page: I simply can't think of any way to merge all of those infoboxes into one table. The table would be huge and unreadable (remember, we have to have information on how to obtain the items), and I don't see any particular need to give up our current policy of giving all official topics an article.
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| *Talk pages: I see no issue with discussion on the topic of the article, so long as the talk pages are regularly archived (like every two months) so that that stuff doesn't overwhelm the work-based topics. I'm a bit confused, though: what's wrong with the KH-based forum we already have? If we allow this type of discussion, would we be getting rid of that forum? If necessary, we could also look into splitting the talk pages into a "Commentary" and "Chat" page. This could be done either with the new suite template I've introduced at [[Riku]], or by actually editing the mediawiki code to create an extra tab at the top of the page.
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| *DeadFantasy: I can't think of any reason why this would need to be moved from the wikia unless the wikia is actually being abandoned. Furthermore, I have serious doubts about its legality (it is ''not'' protected speech, and I doubt he paid to use the characters), and there's no functional difference between it and any highly-viewed artpiece on deviantart. On the converse, it is the ''perfect'' subject for a wiki that focuses on the fandom of Kingdom Hearts.
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| **To follow up with that, for such a wiki it would be incredibly easy to start articles on the various conventions, fanmade cosplay items, fansites, etc. From experience, I can tell you that no matter how restrictive the wiki is, no matter how few editors you have, just ''starting'' those types of articles will get them to explode. The fandom is as vain as anyone else, and loves to talk about itself.
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| *Forums: I don't see any problem with moving over all of the keyhole's forums, except for the archive one. Several reasons: it seems rather against the idea of what we do elsewhere to close a discussion and forbid any followups; the software automatically moves abandoned threads to the back of the queue; if the topic becomes relevant again, like discussion about a project, ease of access to the previous discussion is extremely helpful; if someone has something to say about the exact same topic, do we really want them starting a new topic? On the converse, the gamehelps forum is a WONDERFUL idea, and in fact, I think that old or closed topics there should be merged into the walkthrough project.
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| *Music in infoboxes: We actually already do that, and have for a while. ''However'', Erry and them have been trying to design a jazzy logo for the music bit to make it easier to spot within the infobox. I would be ''ecstatic'' if the aesthetic gurus at the keyhole would help get that problem solved.
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