Editing Forum:Judgment Day of Channel Operator Erry

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{{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}}
{{Forumheader|The World that Never was}}


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{{DTN|time=05:52, 20 November 2011 (UTC)~|text=It is required that you listen to [http://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/judgment-day this song] while reading this forum.
{{DTN|time=04:41, 20 November 2011 (UTC)|text=It is required that you listen to [http://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/judgment-day this song] while reading this forum.


As requested, I have respectfully returned the +o flag to ErryK, resolving this stalemate-locked issue plaguing the IRC and Roundtables. However, this opens the door to a resolution of the conflict: a judging of whether or not Erry has the ability or even deserves to remain in the spot of channel operator.
As requested, I have respectfully returned the +o flag to ErryK, resolving this stalemate-locked issue plaguing the IRC and Roundtables. However, this opens the door to a resolution of the conflict: a judging of whether or not Erry has the ability or even deserves to remain in the spot of channel operator.
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Now, for the evidence. As I said, I am able to provide evidence of of Erry's actions on the IRC that make him absolutely unfitting to be in any leadership position there. Below is a collection of log excerpts that display this behavior of his—and this is not even all of it, just some of it. Regrettably, a lot of the confessionals took place in Erry and I's PM memo, which I unfortunately did not have set to log. I apologize for that, and I know that I've let you down; I've been a fool to myself, but hopefully what is below should be PLENTY to show you what we are dealing with. Logs are in chronological order and contain both relevant and non-relevant material, but have been cut/abridged to show only material that pertains to the situation. (Originals available on request, though there is no difference in all but perhaps a few cases, if any) These logs serve two purposes: expose Erry's inappropriate, rude, and violent behavior as well reveal the support from a large community of users who support the removal of his channel operator flag.
Now, for the evidence. As I said, I am able to provide evidence of of Erry's actions on the IRC that make him absolutely unfitting to be in any leadership position there. Below is a collection of log excerpts that display this behavior of his—and this is not even all of it, just some of it. Regrettably, a lot of the confessionals took place in Erry and I's PM memo, which I unfortunately did not have set to log. I apologize for that, and I know that I've let you down; I've been a fool to myself, but hopefully what is below should be PLENTY to show you what we are dealing with. Logs are in chronological order and contain both relevant and non-relevant material, but have been cut/abridged to show only material that pertains to the situation. (Originals available on request, though there is no difference in all but perhaps a few cases, if any) These logs serve two purposes: expose Erry's inappropriate, rude, and violent behavior as well reveal the support from a large community of users who support the removal of his channel operator flag.


<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''Erry K criticizing users for fun, then being sarcastically rude.'''</th></tr>
'''ErryK criticizing users for fun, then being sarcastically rude.'''
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[2011-07-01 23:26:35] <ErryK> You guys remind me of some little gi-oh wait...
[2011-07-01 23:26:35] <ErryK> You guys remind me of some little gi-oh wait...
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[2011-07-01 23:27:09] <ErryK> It is nice, to me. :)
[2011-07-01 23:27:09] <ErryK> It is nice, to me. :)
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''ErryK makes typical rude and offensive comments and then leaves instead of solving the problem.'''</th></tr>
'''ErryK makes typical rude and offensive comments and then leaves instead of solving the problem.'''
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[2011-07-01 23:33:36] * DoorToNothing cries "Havoc", and lets slip the Crono of WAr.
[2011-07-01 23:33:36] * DoorToNothing cries "Havoc", and lets slip the Crono of WAr.
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[2011-07-01 23:40:32] <Crono|Anime> Yeah, Erry has been a douchesickle lately.
[2011-07-01 23:40:32] <Crono|Anime> Yeah, Erry has been a douchesickle lately.
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''ErryK overasserts himself and does not listen to reasoning from a designated leader.'''</th></tr>
'''ErryK overasserts himself and does not listen to reasoning from a designated leader.'''
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[2011-07-17 23:44:26] <DoorToNothing> ErryK|ReCoM
[2011-07-17 23:44:26] <DoorToNothing> ErryK|ReCoM
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[2011-07-17 23:59:26] <DoctorReeves> (Erry, you're an op too)
[2011-07-17 23:59:26] <DoctorReeves> (Erry, you're an op too)
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''ErryK gets called out for his rude behavior by Sapheta, leaves in rage without solving the problem, instead making it worse. Then Sapheta sums up the ErryK situation.'''</th></tr>
'''ErryK gets called out for his rude behavior by Sapheta, leaves in rage without solving the problem, instead making it worse. Then Sapheta sums up the ErryK situation.'''
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[2011-08-05 22:17:31] <Sapheta> ErryK: He's away.
[2011-08-05 22:17:31] <Sapheta> ErryK: He's away.
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[2011-08-05 23:04:22] <LegoAlchemist> He also has moments where he's really rude >>
[2011-08-05 23:04:22] <LegoAlchemist> He also has moments where he's really rude >>
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''ErryK rudely insults SilverCrono over a memetic joke of his, and I point out for the millionth time that this is not acceptable behavior.'''</th></tr>
'''ErryK rudely insults SilverCrono over a memetic joke of his, and I point out for the millionth time that this is not acceptable behavior.'''
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[2011-08-13 18:54:41] -->| SilverCrono (~ENUO@unaffiliated/silvercrono) has joined #KHWiki-social
[2011-08-13 18:54:41] -->| SilverCrono (~ENUO@unaffiliated/silvercrono) has joined #KHWiki-social
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[2011-08-13 18:59:32] <DoorToNothing> WE CAN NOW RESUME SAMMICH-RELATED CONVERSATION.
[2011-08-13 18:59:32] <DoorToNothing> WE CAN NOW RESUME SAMMICH-RELATED CONVERSATION.
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''ErryK ignores Rule #1 and essentially claims he is above being punished for it by using the channel to gossip about the leadership of our former sister wiki.'''</th></tr>
'''ErryK ignores Rule #1 and essentially claims he is above being punished for it by using the channel to gossip about the leadership of our former sister wiki.'''
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[2011-08-25 17:14:40] <ErryK> I personally think some people at the FF wiki do not deserve their positions or authoritative powers.
[2011-08-25 17:14:40] <ErryK> I personally think some people at the FF wiki do not deserve their positions or authoritative powers.
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[2011-08-25 18:08:57] <DoorToNothing> LET'S NOT SAY ANYTHING MORE ABOUT THIS TOPIC.
[2011-08-25 18:08:57] <DoorToNothing> LET'S NOT SAY ANYTHING MORE ABOUT THIS TOPIC.
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''ErryK absolutely, massively abuses his operator abilities. At this point, I remove the +o flag, after discussing with other channel operators in a side-channel.'''</th></tr>
'''ErryK absolutely, massively abuses his operator abilities. At this point, I remove the +o flag, after discussing with other channel operators in a side-channel.'''
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[2011-08-25 18:09:06] =-= Mode #KHWiki-social +o DoorToNothing by ChanServ
[2011-08-25 18:09:06] =-= Mode #KHWiki-social +o DoorToNothing by ChanServ
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[2011-08-25 18:21:11] =-= Mode #KHWiki-social -m  by Sapheta
[2011-08-25 18:21:11] =-= Mode #KHWiki-social -m  by Sapheta
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''Vestige displays typical sarcastic behavior instead of politely trying to solve the issue at hand.'''</th></tr>
'''Vestige displays typical sarcastic behavior instead of politely trying to solve the issue at hand.'''
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[2011-08-27 17:46:03] <Vestige> http://www.khwiki.net/Forum:ErryK_as_an_OP
[2011-08-27 17:46:03] <Vestige> http://www.khwiki.net/Forum:ErryK_as_an_OP
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[2011-08-27 17:50:28] <SilverCrono> ...cuz you do, Vestige/Erry  
[2011-08-27 17:50:28] <SilverCrono> ...cuz you do, Vestige/Erry  
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''Vestige ambiguously alludes to me rudely with insults and is called out once more by Sapheta.'''</th></tr>
'''Vestige ambiguously alludes to me rudely with insults and is called out once more by Sapheta.'''
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[2011-08-29 16:49:00] <Vestige|XIII> ¬_¬
[2011-08-29 16:49:00] <Vestige|XIII> ¬_¬
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[2011-08-29 17:04:27] * DoorToNothing finds Vestige's hints rather ambiguous enough for Sapheta to be correct in stating the obvious perception innocently.
[2011-08-29 17:04:27] * DoorToNothing finds Vestige's hints rather ambiguous enough for Sapheta to be correct in stating the obvious perception innocently.
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''Vestige ignores the rule of language and nonsensically tries to deny punishment for it.'''</th></tr>
'''Vestige ignores the rule of language and nonsensically tries to deny punishment for it.'''
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[2011-09-05 19:20:56] <Aradooria> But when you admit to KNOWING WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS AGAINST THE RULES THAT EVERYONE AGREES TO FOLLOW and yet you do it anyway, it is simply illogical.
[2011-09-05 19:20:56] <Aradooria> But when you admit to KNOWING WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS AGAINST THE RULES THAT EVERYONE AGREES TO FOLLOW and yet you do it anyway, it is simply illogical.
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''ErryK avoids me instead of approaching me to actually try and solve this. This situation occurs many times in the near future after this log.'''</th></tr>
'''ErryK avoids me instead of approaching me to actually try and solve this. This situation occurs many times in the near future after this log.'''
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[2011-09-09 22:47:00] -->| YOU (DoorToNothing) have joined #KHWiki-social
[2011-09-09 22:47:00] -->| YOU (DoorToNothing) have joined #KHWiki-social
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[2011-09-09 23:05:21] * DoorToNothing earns +1 Gross.
[2011-09-09 23:05:21] * DoorToNothing earns +1 Gross.
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''Sove and wolf5000 agree than ErryK is not worthy of the channel operator position, showing support from other users than just myself and other operators.'''</th></tr>
'''Sove and wolf5000 agree than ErryK is not worthy of the channel operator position, showing support from other users than just myself and other operators.'''
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[2011-09-10 20:46:04] <Sove> I can pretty easily see whether or not a person deserves to be opped, didn't take long to see that ErryK isn't worthy
[2011-09-10 20:46:04] <Sove> I can pretty easily see whether or not a person deserves to be opped, didn't take long to see that ErryK isn't worthy
[2011-09-10 20:46:51] <wolf5000> Yea
[2011-09-10 20:46:51] <wolf5000> Yea
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''Sove and maggosh expand on the concept of Erry not deserving the +o flag, suggesting higher punishment than simply removing his position.'''</th></tr>
'''Sove and maggosh expand on the concept of Erry not deserving the +o flag, suggesting higher punishment than simply removing his position.'''
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[2011-09-10 21:24:36] <Sove> If what DTN said about his behaviour is true, the deopping was right
[2011-09-10 21:24:36] <Sove> If what DTN said about his behaviour is true, the deopping was right
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[2011-09-10 21:26:13] <Sove> Most of the time he used his op rights, they were abuse of some kind
[2011-09-10 21:26:13] <Sove> Most of the time he used his op rights, they were abuse of some kind
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<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" width="100%" cellspacing="0"><tr><th align="left">'''ErryK, again, immaturely avoids me in a childish game of peek-a-boo.'''</th></tr>
'''ErryK, again, immaturely avoids me in a childish game of peek-a-boo.'''
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[2011-09-09 22:47:00] -->| YOU (DoorToNothing) have joined #KHWiki-social
[2011-09-09 22:47:00] -->| YOU (DoorToNothing) have joined #KHWiki-social
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[2011-09-11 03:00:23] |<-- ErryK|Android has left freenode (Client Quit)
[2011-09-11 03:00:23] |<-- ErryK|Android has left freenode (Client Quit)
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{{-}}
I hope you could identify the a few themes in the logs above. Firstly, Erry does not solve problems with log or fairness. Instead, he avoids you by leaving the IRC whenever you log on, abuses his channel operator rights, or breaks the rules knowing that he is doing so. A channel operator should be able to mediate and take care of problems rather than be stubborn. Secondly, Erry likes to skate right on the edge of rule-breaking when he is not doing so absolutely. A channel operator should not be playing so close to the fire that we are trying to prevent from kindling, figuratively speaking.


So therefore, with all things considered, I believe that Erry does not deserve the +o flag and should have it removed immediately.}}
In addition, this is something you all should know:


{{Maggosh|nathan=Aren't you dead?}}
<center><big><big><big>'''''ERRY DOES NOT CARE.'''''</big></big></big></center>


{{17m|text=Oh wow, that song is good.
What do I mean by that, you ask? Simply put, '''when KrytenKoro on my behalf told Erry that a forum to discuss his channel operator flag would be created, ''ErryK stated that he was going to ignore any decision we made and keep the flag somehow, by any means he could come up with'''''. If that's not being stubborn and childish, then I don't know what is. Erry did not want you to know this because he only told KrytenKoro about this in a late PM, but it is unfair for the community to not know of such an ignorant attitude.


<nowiki>*ehem*</nowiki> that aside, I believe everyone has a second chance. So without any intention of insulting or favoring anyone, I believe we should give his OP right for the time being. If he succeeds in showing proper behavior as an OP this time, then let him has the right until something came up that requires him to be de-opped again.
Also, I hope you could identify the a few themes in the logs above. Firstly, Erry does not solve problems with log or fairness. Instead, he avoids you by leaving the IRC whenever you log on, abuses his channel operator rights, or breaks the rules knowing that he is doing so. A channel operator should be able to mediate and take care of problems. Secondly, Erry likes to skate right on the edge of rule-breaking when he is not doing so absolutely. A channel operator should not be playing so close to the fire that we are trying to prevent from kindling, figuratively speaking.


And by all honesty, I don't really like seeing people cursing, insulting or whatever bad attitude they're showing so can we please just get along and be all sunshine and rainbows?}}
So therefore, with all things considered, I believe that Erry does not deserve the +o flag and should have it removed immediately.}}
 
{{Sove|time=10:30, 20 November 2011 (UTC)|roxastalk=I agree with 17m for now, Erry's behaviour has changed positively since these incidents. If he can prove to be worthy, I won't have a problem with him having OP privileges. If he keeps breaking the rules or abuses the OP privileges again, I will have to support his re-deopping. As much as I hate to do this to people I consider friends, I can't defend them in everything, like in this case.
 
And I really meant what I said about his opping in the first place. While Erry is nice towards me and many others, I still saw that opping him is probably not a good idea. Yes, I have a sixth sense, I saw the abuse coming. Still, nothing personal on Erry, I still like him, but I just can't tolerate his past actions.
 
Where did I mention a higher punishment? o.O Maggosh made that suggestion, not me. I might have somewhat supported it, but not to a ban (and if I did mention that, I didn't actually mean that. The problem with the bans is that it might lead to more harm than good, and in this case, it almost certainly would. Ban is not the right solution.}}
 
{{Maggosh|nathan=Not to mention I made that suggestion out of pure mockery and sarcasm.}}
{{Chitalian8|time=17:24, 20 November 2011 (UTC)|nekutalk= I agree with most of Sove's points. Although he is an excellent user, I just don't see him being a responsible OP on the IRC channel. To be perfectly blunt, Erry's far too antagonistic, and as DTN put it, "sarcastically rude", to be trusted with OPship.}}
 
{{LightRoxas|tron=I vote we give him one more chance. If he does any of this again, we can deop him for good.}}
 
{{The_Inexistent|grue=<s>No, we will not drop this, even if that is the sensable and rational thing to do.</s>
 
<s>And apparently my comments on your gigantic paragraph link also did not exist.</s>
 
# The context of this before hand would be nice... as it seems a tad... purposelly edited.
# I'll give you that one.
# I really don't have an opinion on this one... confusion can sometimes be a terrible beasty.
# I would recognize the valid points in there, but there is far too much hyperboly.  True, Erry can be a tad extreme and antagonistic, but Saph is suddenly his superior in all manners?  Hardly.
# I'll give you that one as well.
# That is... meh.  It's about as inappropriate as the time I said that our walkthroughs would be better if they were hosted here than Strategy Wiki <small><small>Inadvertantly making Prod rather angry</small></small>.
# Yes, bad.
# Erry's last line is somewhat true.  I've seen plenty of times where he is nice and helpful.  However, only the times when he was being inappropriate are shown.  <small>It's like saying that Caesar shouldn't have been considered Roman because his power thirst was unpatriotic... he still built up the republic.</small>
# It's easier to blame the king than the parliament...  <small>...of course, in this case, the "king" was really the only one actually enoforcing (and making) the decision...</small>
# Murder of passion.  True, he broke a rule (which he should have realized), but only in defense of his own annoyance.
# Aside from the fact that I'm pretty sure his intent was because you joined, you're making the assumption that he was avoiding you.  I truly hate it when I have to leave just as someone joins, as it makes me feel... rather... rude.
# I respect Sove's opinion.<!---Not in music, of course.  :P--->
# Meh.
# Yes, still inappropriate.
 
''...take care of problems rather than be stubborn.''
:Both of you have brought this up ''how'' many times?
 
And I must say, I appreciate that this time the instigator (I tried to find a more euphamistic word, but I couldn't think of one) actually came to the community ''first'' as opposed to just outright doing it and then remaining ignorant to the communities wishes.  I also appreciate that his opship was restored.<!---And throughout this argument, there has been one thing I've been dying to say, but never would.--->}}
{{SilverCrono|time=21:31, 20 November 2011 (UTC)|text=<s>Kill it with fire. Nobody messes with Captain Planet.</s>
 
If Erry's been getting better, then yeah, let him keep the OPs. However, he has a history of returning to his bad ways, so I say get somebody trustworthy to keep logs of him (Sapheh?), and he if exhibits behavior like this again, take dem ops away. Forever and ever and ever and ''the end''.
 
 
...'''''captain planet'''''}}
 
<s> NOOOOOOOO!! THAT GODTEXT. IT HAUNTS MY NIGHTMARES. Oh, looky. I've appeared twice in the logs and I was mentioned once</s>
 
So anyway....
Everyone deserves a second chance. I'm sure EK will be better-behaved this time around. {{Keyblade0Sig}}
 
{{Ark|time=05:40, 22 November 2011 (UTC)|text=I shall present my view as an 'outsider' to this wiki.
 
To a casual user this situation looks unprofessional. Having a volatile and unpredictable user in a position of power is off-putting. It is amateurish to have a user unsuitable for a position of power installed in that position of power; it is what one might expect from a small forum with a few dozen users, not from a wiki as well established and authoritative as this.
 
The logs presented above show a user who regularly behaves in a puerile and jejune manner and is unrepentant about this behaviour. Is this really the type of user who should be in a position of prominence?
 
ErryK may be a useful ''user'', but he is quite simply unsuitable for the position of ''operator'' and really should not have gained the position in the first place. [http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml freenode provide a guide on what makes a good 'catalyst'] - a desirable series of traits in any user but vital in an operator. ErryK meets pretty much none of these criteria.
 
The level of professionalism and type of conduct expected from an operator are considerably stricter than those expected from a normal user. An operator is in a position of power and is looked to by many as an ambassador to the wiki. Bluntly, ErryK reflects poorly on the wiki in his current position, and the high levels of professionalism that the wiki prides itself on are compromised as a result.
 
As such, it is my opinion that, whilst ErryK should never have gained operator status to begin with, this situation should be resolved with the permanent removal of his operator rights. A 'last chance' should not be given again. Doing so would demonstrate a very poor regard for the values that make this wiki the authoritative resource that it currently is.
 
The position of operator is a badge of honour; a badge that ErryK does ''not'' deserve to wear.}}
{{LA|Vtext=Ark provides an interesting perspective to the situation. I am in agreement with him and Doorsey.}}
 
{{maggosh|nathan=Very well, I'll have him banned within the hour.}}

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