Editing Forum:IRC Channel Operator Discussion

{{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}}

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{{Ark|time=02:25, 6 February 2012 (UTC)|XJR-9= I am XJR-9, and, for those of you who are not aware, I am the new manager of the Kingdom Hearts Wiki IRC channels, #KHWiki-social and #KHWiki-noticeboard on freenode, after DoorToNothing passed on his Founder rights to me.<br>
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With the new staff elections taking place recently, it is time to review our policies relating to the management of our IRC channels. <b>We must decide who will or will not be promoted, who will or will not be demoted, what our channel operators should be able to do and what sort of behaviour should be expected of them.</b><br>
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Firstly, allow me to state for utmost clarity: <b>my role is to manage the channels and to ensure their smooth operation, not to rule them as a despot. I will not act against community consensus.</b> So that you, the community, may make an informed decision on what is best for our channels, I have detailed the key factors that make for a good channel operator.<br>
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The basic problem with our current system is that we use channel operator rights as a ‘badge of honour’, automatically awarded to Wiki Staff. <b>This is not how the allocation of channel operator rights should be decided.</b> Channel operator rights should be awarded based on a combination of factors outlined below.<br>

A good channel operator should be:
*<b>A good <span class="plainlinks">[http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml catalyst]</span></b>
:freenode provide <span class="plainlinks">[http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml a guide]</span> on what makes a good catalyst, and I advise you to read it.
*<b>Knowledgeable about IRC commands and operation</b>
:A good understanding of the mechanisms of IRC is essential. At <i>minimum</i>, a channel operator <i>must</i> know how to OP themselves, de-OP themselves, change the channel topic, quiet a user, ban a user, set an effective hostmask ban, and kick or remove a user. They should also understand the various channel modes used on freenode and how to utilise them. Remember that <i>knowing</i> the commands is not the same as going to look up the commands when needed; a channel operator must understand the primary commands in order to effectively manage the channel and be able to promptly deal with a channel emergency.
*<b>Calm and fair</b>
:It is important that a channel operator has the right temperament; hot-headedness is very poorly suited to the role.
*<b>Active and contactable</b>
:A channel operator should be regularly online and easily contactable in the event of a channel emergency.
*<b>Respectful of channel guidelines</b>
:All users should respect the channel <abbr title="Honestly, they are not ‘rules’, as most users do not follow them exactly; ‘guidelines’ is more accurate">guidelines</abbr>, but it is particularly important that channel operators adhere to the guidelines that they are supposedly enforcing.<br>
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So, if new operators are chosen based on these factors, what should be done about the current operators? That is, of course, ultimately up to you to decide. The current channel Access List can be seen <span class="plainlinks">[http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/KujaFFIX/Miscellaneous/87248be9.jpg here]</span>. There are three options to consider. Firstly, they could be left as they are, retaining their channel operator rights; secondly, I could remove some of those users’ channel operator rights whilst leaving them with the ability to Voice themselves and change the channel topic; thirdly, I could remove some of those users from the Access List, thus returning them to standard users.<br>
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===<span style="color:#FFFFFF">Further Information</span>===
*I have previously mentioned the possibility of automatically Voicing all Wiki Staff members in #KHWiki-noticeboard. As mentioned earlier, Voice is independent of channel operator rights - Voice allows a user to speak in a moderated channel, and provides visual distinction between normal users and staff, which may be useful in the ‘official Wiki-business channel’. An example of such a system can be seen in #freenode, where all freenode staff members are Voiced. I will not add Auto-Voice rights without consensus, though, so please comment on this idea below.

*I have added freenode staff to the channel Access List of both primary channels, meaning that all freenode staff members have operator rights in our channels. In the event that none of our operators are available to help with a channel emergency (such as a problem user), you can contact a staff member in #freenode for assistance. As mentioned above, staff members are Voiced in #freenode.

*I have created a separate sandbox channel, #KHWiki-OPs, the key to which is ‘.net’. The purpose of this channel is to allow users to experiment with channel operator powers with no consequences; every user has operator rights in this channel, and they are free to use them pretty much as they wish.

*Considering the existence of #KHWiki-OPs, there is absolutely no excuse for any abuse of power in the primary channels. In the event of abuse of power from a channel operator in #KHWiki-social or #KHWiki-noticeboard, I will remove that user’s operator rights. The community can then debate and decide whether or not the user deserves to regain their operator rights and I will respect that decision after it has been properly discussed. Understand that ‘abuse of power’ is quite different to an error of judgement, a genuine mistake or actions taken in the heat of the moment; any of these will, of course, not result in an immediate removal of operator rights.<br>
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<b>I will act upon the aforementioned rights changes in accordance with consensus after this forum has been open for discussion for one week.</b><br>

Thank you for taking the time to read this post. I will try to answer any questions that you may have below.<br>}}

{{Sove|time=15:57, 6 February 2012 (UTC)|roxastalk=I think the inactives should have the operator rights removed and let them have +v instead. Active ones can keep their rights, but if for any reason they are removed, they need to be re-elected the same way we should have any new OPs from now on. How we should het new OPs from now on, that's up for debate.

Also: "I will act upon the aforementioned rights changes in accordance with consensus after this forum has been open for discussion for one week." If you ignore this forum, he will do nothing, there won't be new OPs at all due to lack of consensus.}}
{{SilverCrono|time=23:09, 7 February 2012 (UTC)|talk=What if a user is inactive on the wiki, but active on the IRC? Or vice versa? What if they become an inactive staff, but still frequent the IRC? 


Also, another question. I admit I'm a serious offender here, but what if a user and another user are joking around or playing a game? Say one of the users is an OP, and kicks the other user. Would this count as an "abuse of power", even though the two users were playing around and both knew they weren't being punished in any serious way?


Again with the questions, sorry. But I notice I don't fit many of those qualities you listed as a good OP status. Not really a question as much as an observation. Does this mean I get demoted? <small>Okay, that was a question.</small>


Now I'm commenting. I like the idea of auto-Voicing. It lets you know who is an op, without them being op'd. Will this get implemented into the social channel, also?


I also notice you said that wiki rights =/= op rights, <s>Arkeh</s> XJR. What does this mean, exactly? Will any forthcoming staff not be awarded OPs until the need is exercised? Will OP rights be taken away from some people who don't even visit the channel(s)?


Also new OPs. I think that the major staff that are moving due to the merge should be OP'd ''immediately''. This doesn't mean Keyhole staff = OP rights; I mean users who show that they frequently visit the KHWiki channels. This would mean I am candidating for Chitalian, Dark-Enigma, Soxra, Chaser, etc, etc. At this moment, I don't know how I feel about people getting demoted or dropped to just Voice. I'll ponder it.


Not relating to the forum, but yeah guys, comment on here. And that's my <s>$0.02</s> $20. <small><small><small><small>Using lots of money...like a <font color="red">boss</font>.</small></small></small></small>}}

{{Sove|time=01:27, 8 February 2012 (UTC)|roxastalk=
Q: "What if a user is inactive on the wiki, but active on the IRC? Or vice versa? What if they become an inactive staff, but still frequent the IRC?"

A: Our idea is to completely separate OP rights from wiki rights. Meaning that OP rights are not automatically given to staff members, but they are given to active IRC users per community decision. Being staff isn't a requirement.

Q: "Also, another question. I admit I'm a serious offender here, but what if a user and another user are joking around or playing a game? Say one of the users is an OP, and kicks the other user. Would this count as an "abuse of power", even though the two users were playing around and both knew they weren't being punished in any serious way?"

A: #KHWiki-OPs Also, any good OP will ignore requests to be kicked etc.

Q: "Again with the questions, sorry. But I notice I don't fit many of those qualities you listed as a good OP status. Not really a question as much as an observation. Does this mean I get demoted? <small>Okay, that was a question.</small>"

A: I'm for inactives for now.

Q: "Now I'm commenting. I like the idea of auto-Voicing. It lets you know who is an op, without them being op'd. Will this get implemented into the social channel, also?"

A: If the community wants so.

Q: "I also notice you said that wiki rights =/= op rights, <s>Arkeh</s> XJR. What does this mean, exactly? Will any forthcoming staff not be awarded OPs until the need is exercised? Will OP rights be taken away from some people who don't even visit the channel(s)?"

A: See my first answer. Why would we keep OPs who don't visit the channels, btw?

Argument: "Also new OPs. I think that the major staff that are moving due to the merge should be OP'd ''immediately''. This doesn't mean Keyhole staff = OP rights; I mean users who show that they frequently visit the KHWiki channels. This would mean I am candidating for Chitalian, Dark-Enigma, Soxra, Chaser, etc, etc. At this moment, I don't know how I feel about people getting demoted or dropped to just Voice. I'll ponder it."

Reply: You missed the experience part? From those, DE and Sox are the only ones who I could consider.

[05:17] * Chitalian (~chatzilla@cpe-24-90-28-165.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #khwiki-ops<br>
[05:17] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Chitalian<br>
[05:17] * Chitalian sets mode: -o Chitalian<br>
[05:17] <Chitalian> /msg chanserv op #wikimedia

I won't even bother to explain how much of a fail that is.}}

{{Ark|time=14:25, 12 February 2012 (UTC)|XJR-9=As of now, this forum has twelve hours left to run.<br>
The consensus presented to me so far would indicate support for Auto-Voicing of Staff in #KHWiki-noticeboard, the demotion of inactive channel operators from Operator rights to Voice and the possible promotion to channel operator of Dark-EnigmaXIII and Soxra from the Wiki's Staff. I am also in favour of promoting Sove and Sora1995, as they are both sufficiently active and knowledgeable to meet the requirements for channel operator outlined in my first post.<br>
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<b>If you wish to add your opinion, please do so within the next twelve hours.</b><br>
After this time, I will act in accordance with the views presented above.}}

{{Soxra|admin="''I am also in favour of promoting Sove and Sora1995, as they are both sufficiently active and knowledgeable to meet the requirements for channel operator outlined in my first post.''"

Given that we already have a fair number of operators (even pre-forum), do you really think this is necessary? I personally think that users who are not active enough on this Wiki to be present in its discussions, events, or even contributions shouldn't be granted this type of access.|time={{User:Soxra/Sig|t=}} 18:37, 12 February 2012 (UTC)}}
{{Chitalian8|time=19:22, 12 February 2012 (UTC)|neku= There's nothing wrong with the auto-voicing, you all can go ahead and do that. However, we currently have 10 Ops. I agree with Sox, we really don't need all that many more.}}

{{Ark|time=20:23, 12 February 2012 (UTC)|XJR-9=I agree that our channels are quiet enough that they do not need many operators - I would say that three active OPs would be quite enough. However, that would be three active and <i>knowledgeable</i> operators. I remain unconvinced that we currently have three operators who are actually knowledgeable enough to the meet the level described in my initial post outlining what makes for a good channel operator.<br>
Of course, please feel free to prove me wrong.<br>
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I will also remind you that I did not state that I <b>would</b> promote Sove and Sora1995, just that I would personally favour their candidacy. With your views taken into account, it would seem that the consensus is in favour of Auto-Voice in #KHWiki-noticeboard and demotion to Voice level of inactive users, with no current consensus on new OPs; please correct me if I am wrong on the last point.}}
@@ Line 109: / Line 109: @@
 <br>
 I will also remind you that I did not state that I <b>would</b> promote Sove and Sora1995, just that I would personally favour their candidacy. With your views taken into account, it would seem that the consensus is in favour of Auto-Voice in #KHWiki-noticeboard and demotion to Voice level of inactive users, with no current consensus on new OPs; please correct me if I am wrong on the last point.}}
-{{Ark|time=03:30, 13 February 2012 (UTC)|XJR-9=In accordance with this Forum, inactive staff members now have Voice rights only (although they may still change the topic through ChanServ) and Auto-Voice is now set for all Wiki Staff in #KHWiki-noticeboard. Be aware that, for reasons of security and convenience, Auto-Voice is linked to NickServ accounts. As such, staff members without NickServ accounts (or those who do not identify to their accounts) will not receive Auto-Voice or Voice rights.<br>
-There are no new channel operators, although Dark-EnigmaXIII, Soxra and Chitalian now have Voice rights in both channels.}}