Editing Forum:General Wiki Maintenance

{{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}}

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'''This should be seen as a general discussion: I want all administrators, moderators, etc to see this.'''

In all seriousness, you at this wiki should take yourself more, er, seriously. I have a few ideas to distance yourself from the Keyhole, and they should be listened to, etc.
#Walkthrough Namespace: This should be made immediately, because if you want to have guides that are professional and truly be seen as an encyclopedia, like Bulbapedia, you should make this space and allow anyone to make a good-quality walkthrough that can '''benefit''' the wiki.
#Home Page: You should make this stand out more. The page is bland and only in two main colours: white and yellow. Use more colours and make it more unique.
#Userboxes: First, since this is an encyclopedia, you should remake the userboxes using a clever quote with it, like with the Sora userbox, it should say something like: "'''This user''' is the chosen wielder of the Keyblade", with every userbox starting with or containing "This user". Also, the Categories for fan-stuff, like Category: Users who are fans of Sora" should be deleted immediately.

Well, there are more ideas that I haven't discussed yet, so please, discuss! [[User: SidVI|SidVI]] 07:30, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

:While I can agree with points 1 and 2 (In fact, [[Forum:Main Page Revamp|point 2's being worked on already]]), I don't agree with point 3. The fan stuff is in the userspace, not the main content, so it shouldn't really be of any concern. -- {{User:Some Color Mage/sig}} 08:38, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

::[[Forum:Walkthrough Format|And so is point 1]]. And then both projects stopped... Seriously guys. We need to do this, especially the walkthrough since it's probably the one thing we need to revive activities on this wiki. {{User:17master/Sign}} 09:47, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

::ROUNDTABLE. TODAY. GO TO IT.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 12:20, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

1) We're working on that. 2) We're working on that. 3) I don't really like that idea. For one thing, we already use the quotes, and jarringly tacking on "This user" seems pointless. Not to mention that the boxes are used for talk pages, forums, user pages, etc. - i.e. places that aren't the mainspace. As for the category boxes, they're for user pages, not the mainspace, so they're not a problem. {{User:LapisScarab/Sig}}15:49, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
{{EO|time=15:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC)|text=My say on the matters mentioned above:
::::'''1) Walkthrough Namespace''' - I am COMPLETELY against purging every personal walkthrough on this Wiki to make one completely article-redundant walkthrough that is sure to cause more problems than necessary when conflicting views come into play. People (myself included with [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Walkthrough|this]]) work or have worked too hard on their walkthroughs for them to just be removed because they exist. If anything, we should move them to an off-Wiki site (like the Keyhole in our old userspaces, if they'll let us).  
::::'''2) Home Page''' - While I'd like to see a more "jazzy" homepage myself, we're not a bunch of Wiki-princesses. I see no problem with our current main page (but the logo and the yellow KH3D sidebars, which should be purple to match the game or replaced with a neutral KH-esque theme, leave much to be desired).
::::'''3) Userboxes''' - Completely unnecessary to revamp them. I was working on a project to add new userboxes/make our current ones more creative, but this is NOT a first priority. If anything, the Keyhole should change theirs.

If we want to do ANYTHING to set us apart from the Keyhole, I'd like to make my following opinion known:

::::Right now, we have some stupid "image war" going on where we can't use ANY images uploaded to the Keyhole here without asking first. If this is done, the image is deleted on the grounds of copyright infringement. The same thing goes for text/articles; we can't copy it. While the Keyhole has changed their templates around a bit, why, then, are they allowed to keep OUR old articles/images? While a bunch of rewrites are pointless and there's no way we can dispute over an official render we both got from the same source, we're contradicting ourselves. I'd like to see an end to this separation (which I know will bring up the "this removes the point of us leaving Wikia in the first place" counter-arguement) so that both sites can have the benefits of the other (if they have an HQ render of the latest announced Dream Eater, we should be able to get it as well, and vice versa).

Alas, I will not be able to attend the Roundtable (third one I've missed -_-; you can blame school and my parents for that). However, there is another issue, other than my opinion about the Keyhole and Walkthrough spaces, that I would like to have mentioned:

::::I notice an EXTREME amount of laziness from the staff/regulars here. Certain staffers (who shall remain nameless) are slapping the Bad Name template on an image when they can simply move it to the appropriate title themselves. We also must then make the effort to CHANGE the image links on the articles the old images used to be hosted on. I also notice a problem with the templates where we can add a description as to what's needed/in need of change on an article: For the Expand template, all we ever say is "everything." This unspecific and unhelpful answer to "What needs to be done on this page?" needs to go. Like NOW! I can't tell you how many times I've seen a stub and don't know how to improve it because we're too lazy to write out everything the article needs. Same thing goes for the Betterpic template. WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH THE IMAGE WE'RE USING? Yeah, the template says the image is "too small, bad quality, etc.", but WHAT SPECIFICALLY? I'd really like to see us either remove the customizable portion of those templates completely since we don't use them, or I'd like to see them used the way they are intended to be used.

And there you have another wall-o'-text courtesy of ENX. I hope this makes my opinion on the current state of things apparent. I say what I say with the intent of sparking no arguements, only saying what's on my mind for the good of the Wiki for my fellow staffers to discuss.}}

For no. 3: I meant like this userbox (copied from the Final Fantasy Wiki). Something like that. It is clever and it works, and since this are an encyclopaedic wiki, the clever work would give a brief description of the character, like with this userbox.
<div style="float: left; border:solid #574331 1px; margin: 1px;">
{| cellspacing="0" style="width: 238px; background: #896A4D;"
| style="width: 45px; height: 45px; background: #896A4D; text-align: center;" |http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac157/FFWiki/KH%20Userbox%20Images/th_Userbox_kh-sora.jpg
| style="font-size: 8pt; padding: 4pt; line-height: 1.25em; color: #FFE804;" | This user is the keyblade's [[wikia:kingdomhearts:Sora|<font color="#FFE804">'''chosen one'''</font>]].
|}</div>
{{-}}
For no. 1), everyone can have a chance to make a walkthrough with the intention to educate and guide the masses, the intended walkthrough mainspace should be completed. For no. 2), the main page '''must''' be remade to easily link to all relevant pages and differentiate from the Keyhole. About images, find the image by using a '''different source''' from the Keyhole. For the help templates, I agree with ENX and descriptions on how the page could be expanded, etc. {{User: SidVI/Sig}} 16:23, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

::Concerning the "image war"... If the images are official, both sites are allowed to use them (there was forum about about that).

::And about "why are they allowed to use our stuff?".  WE elected to copy the content to here.  We, however, do to the nature of wikis, could not elect to have the previous content deleted (and they couldn't delete either, even if they wished to).  {{The Inexistentsig}} 17:42, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

:::In fact, ENX, we ''tried'' to get it deleted. Wiki didnt allowed. So, can you stop hating us so much? As for the image things, that was resolved with Shard, and posted in a forum here and the Keyhole. So, please, do some research.--'''[[User:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=black><big>Dark-En</big>]][[User talk:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=gray><big>igmaXIII</big>]]</font></font> 17:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
::::Also, you asked for a render of the unnamed heartless, and you got it. We are really evil, right? Was it really neccesary for you to act so harsh against us?--'''[[User:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=black><big>Dark-En</big>]][[User talk:Dark-EnigmaXIII|<font color=gray><big>igmaXIII</big>]]</font></font> 18:03, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

{{LapisScarab|time=20:27, 2 October 2011 (UTC)|text=@SidVI: In that case, I'm not sure why you brought it up. Most of the user boxes already do that. It still doesn't seem to be a priority concern, in any case. 

@ENX: Agreed on the templates thing. I've always thought the Betterpic template should be modified to let us be more specific about what is wrong with the image. I was under the impression the image issue had been settled. Also, this is a nitpick, but: "The same thing goes for text/articles; we can't copy it." Why would we want to? That was kind of the point of spliting from Wikia. We're independant of the Keyhole's content. 

As for the Walkthroughs, [[Forum:More Walkthrough Matters|this forum]] brings up hosting walkthroughs on a different site. Perhaps the user walkthroughs could be hosted there.}}

{{ShardofTruth|time=21:11, 2 October 2011 (UTC)|talk=I think all your points are valid SidVI but just making suggestions isn't enough on a wiki in a long run. Get involved, help creating a better front page (I think Erry is doing the main work right now), find the quotes you liked to see in the user boxes and make the walkthroughs more professional. We are all volunteers and are working on different things all the time. I can name a dozen projects I'd like to complete, but I just don't have enough time. So get started and make a draft;-)}}
{{Asif|sho=Okay...
#I'm pretty sure we voted previously that we'd host a single wiki-related walkthrough for each game.  When it came time to discuss the specifics, like how different users' strategies could be implemented and how the walkthroughs would be organized, no one could really agree.  We should bring that up and come up with some form that everyone can agree with. I am all for hosting user-related walkthroughs on another site as well, if that's what the community wants.
#I really don't have the coding knowledge that is necessary to make an entirely new home page, but if anybody asks I can give feedback.  I'll try to help out anyway I can.
#Of all the issues we could be dealing with right now, userboxes are a low priority.  The policy is that the mainspace always comes before the userspace, and userboxes fall strictly into the latter category.  They shouldn't be of much concern.

Sorry I'm missing the roundtable; I have too much real-life work.}}
{{KrytenKoro|ENX, I've said this before, but I do most of my KHWiki edits while at work, where I ''DON'T HAVE THE TIME AND ABILITY TO CORRECT ALL THE LINKS''. I have a few minutes to mark the misnamed images, and then I have to ''get back to work''. Also, I usually do add reasoning to the betterpics, it just doesn't display because I have no idea what the parameter name is.

Walkthrough space: If people were really spending enough time on the various walkthroughs for them to be more than just stubs that warrant deletion, then we wouldn't be having such a huge problem getting the walkthrough space started. TNE's ReCoM walkthrough is probably the only one that actually gets to the end of its game.

Also, if people want to get the walkthrough space started, we need to know ''what people want it to look like''. Or, someone needs to just start typing one, so other people can comment on it. I've outlined the exact steps that need to be done tons of times, but I simply don't have the time to start this myself, ''and I need other editors to step in and give input''.}}

{{SidTalk|time=05:59, 3 October 2011 (UTC)|Roxas= @LapisScarab: (Even though the userbox thing is largely unimportant) Someone should de-categorize the userboxes and delete the categories, they're useless, and as for the walkthrough space, you'll need to have someone do Chain of Memories, Days and Re:Coded (arguably the three least popular games). Re:Chain is working out, but how about if someone wanted to look for a Chain guide? Then there is Kingdom Hearts II, I think someone is working on that. For the main page, I'll look at it, but I'm unsure if I can make any changes. I'm only giving out suggestions.}}

{{17m|text= I can help with Re:coded. [[User:Erry/Re:coded Walkthrough|And Erry already made a Re:coded walkthrough.]]}}
{{EO|time=20:49, 3 October 2011 (UTC)|talktext=Back when this was nothing more than an idea, Kryten, I believe I told you I was starting [[User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Walkthrough|this]] (I've linked you to it/mentioned it to you and others tons of times). I know it's not "finished" (If we're deleting it in the end, what's the point?), but the community is more than welcome to glance through what I HAVE completed and make its comments. If we deem the guide "good enough," I see no reason why we can't just do some formatting changes (once we move the original version off-Wiki) to be in line with the Wiki-wide guide everyone seems to have started on ''Kingdom Hearts'' (this was intended to be a rough draft of any ''real'' Wiki-walkthroughs we made in the end, remember).

I have quite a passion for walkthrough-writing, so once we establish everything 100%, I'd be more than willing to contribute full sections of the walkthroughs/small portions such as strategies to them for any of the games (''BBS'' is my favorite, though, so I'd really like to be closely involved with that one...). I just need to be alerted/kept up to speed on the current state of the walkthroughs and what needs to be done for them.

I'll say it once and I'll say it again: my concern for this is the conflicting views of the various editors who will wish to contribute and the redundancy to articles/sections of articles we have in mainspace (which should not be ignored as we enthusiastically become the new BradyGames or GameFAQs).}}
{{LapisScarab|time=21:43, 3 October 2011 (UTC)|text=The user walkthroughs are not being deleted, nor are they being moved off Wiki. That was clarified at the roundtable meeting yesterday (by the by, there is a make-up meeting this coming Saturday; go to it). Any further comments about the Walkthrough space should probably be put on one of the ''several'' forums specifically about it. }}
{{KrytenKoro|LS: ''Why'' are they not being merged into the official walkthroughs? I doubt we even have multiples for individual games, and certainly not of good enough quality to not just treat them as stubs.

We've allowed people to make walkthroughs in their userspace since our founding, and as I've said before, not a single one was ever ''finished''. It's a lost cause. It doesn't make sense to argue "they allow us to represent other takes on the game", since all they are is fragments of a train of thought. I don't get why people are so attached to them; even after merging them in, I highly doubt there are any contradicting methods for a boss or world that we'll have to choose between.}}

{{Asif|sho=Okay... I really like ENX's walkthrough.  Like, ''really'' like it.  It organizes everything the way I wanted- per game, per character, per world- and contains just about all the information you could possibly need to play ''Birth by Sleep''.  If anything, my only complaint is that the "Terra/Aqua/Ventus Overview" pages are redundant to what is on the "Game Basics" page (or at least that's what I'm guessing, seeing as how none of them were actually made).  I'd also like the Table of Contents to be more prominent, and the "About the Author" section won't be necessary on a universal walkthrough.  Oh, and I'd appreciate it aesthetically if the world icons were arranged in rows, rather than one big column that is less user-friendly.  And the colored text from the Destiny Islands page should be utilized as well, along with a specific color key for enemy templates (Purple= Heartless, Yellow= Somebody, etc.). That's all. Here's to making a walkthrough where we don't, as a friend of mine once said, just "throw whatever trash we think of on the page and call it a day".}}

{{SidTalk|time=08:57, 4 October 2011 (UTC)|Axel= I agree with Asif. ENX has really done a good job with his BBS walkthrough, and we should use that method to write the walkthroughs. Organize it in the way ENX did, with all of the additions Asif mentioned, and use boss templates for each boss/important battle. In regards with the "Terra/Ventus/Aqua Overview", it should stay, and there the walkthrough writer can discuss the advantages and disadvantages each character has. In fact, if it is necessary, this should be the norm with games that let you play with multiple characters, like Birth by Sleep. One more thing, who will do Chain of Memories (Re:Chain has been organized, so we need the original). }}
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	{{SidTalk\|time=08:57, 4 October 2011 (UTC)\|Axel= I agree with Asif. ENX has really done a good job with his BBS walkthrough, and we should use that method to write the walkthroughs. Organize it in the way ENX did, with all of the additions Asif mentioned, and use boss templates for each boss/important battle. In regards with the "Terra/Ventus/Aqua Overview", it should stay, and there the walkthrough writer can discuss the advantages and disadvantages each character has. In fact, if it is necessary, this should be the norm with games that let you play with multiple characters, like Birth by Sleep. One more thing, who will do Chain of Memories (Re:Chain has been organized, so we need the original). }}		{{SidTalk\|time=08:57, 4 October 2011 (UTC)\|Axel= I agree with Asif. ENX has really done a good job with his BBS walkthrough, and we should use that method to write the walkthroughs. Organize it in the way ENX did, with all of the additions Asif mentioned, and use boss templates for each boss/important battle. In regards with the "Terra/Ventus/Aqua Overview", it should stay, and there the walkthrough writer can discuss the advantages and disadvantages each character has. In fact, if it is necessary, this should be the norm with games that let you play with multiple characters, like Birth by Sleep. One more thing, who will do Chain of Memories (Re:Chain has been organized, so we need the original). }}

	~~{{17m\|text=Same here, ENX's walkthrough is beautiful I love it. As for CoM I can probably help if I have the spare time to play the game (there are tons of assignments and tests lately, urgh.)}}~~