Editing Forum:Boss attacks

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{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 19:25, 19 May 2015 (UTC)|default=On the matter of boss attack names, we really shouldn't be using unofficial names that aren't from the Ultimania. If a name isn't from the Ultimania, it shouldn't be named at all (even if it's in lowercase to indicate it being unofficial). For example:
*'''Blizzaga jump''': Ventus-Vanitas appears above his target following the execution of afterimage; he slashes downwards, spawning three large icicles.
The arbitary, slightly useless, name tag can easily be removed:
*Ventus-Vanitas appears above his target following the execution of afterimage; he slashes downwards, spawning three large icicles.
Thoughts?}}
{{KrytenKoro|Giving it a name, even if it's an unofficial one that we mark with lowercase or quotation marks, does make it a lot easier to refer to if we have to come back to it later in the strategy. I would instead recommend using the boss's telegraph ("Here I go!", etc.) when we don't have an official technique name.}}
{{TheSilentHero|time=20:06, 19 May 2015 (UTC)|gren=What about this:
*'''Official Name'''
*''Unofficial Name''}}
{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 20:10, 19 May 2015 (UTC)|persuade=Kryten: the strategy can refer to the attack using a tag name regardless. The attack doesn't explicitly have to be labelled with that name for the reader to match a description to a pointed name tag.

TSH: Even still, the point is not having any unofficial names at all.}}
I definitely agree on no unofficial names. See Kryten's talk page and my message on it for an idea I had as a potential solution to the problem. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 20:17, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

:I don't think gifs will work, because it won't be easy to get good quality ones that can show what the enemy does. I think we should focus on getting the official names from the Ultimania. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 20:36, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm not saying it won't work, but gifs are already as difficult to obtain as they are. I'd rather have the few people who can make gifs concentrate on more prevalent attacks, like limits and commands. Also, yes, preferably we get the names from the Ultimania but we still need to reach a consensus on how to deal with unnamed attacks either as a placeholder until the Ultimania is checked or if the Ultimania doesn't name a particular move. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 21:33, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

::'''Bold''' vs. ''Italics'' seems like a good suggestion to me.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 21:52, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
:::I was suggesting either .gifs (which would make descriptions of attacks redundant) or regular .png screenshots (since those could depict the main part of the attack in question, while still requiring a description of what happens when it is executed). This basically would stop the debate on whether we use unofficial names or not (something I'm against, completely). If anything, the table I'm proposing could allow a space for an attack name '''if there is one from the Ultimania'''. Otherwise, we would just leave that slot in the table blank, or write "N/A" or put a dash. For example:
{|cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5" align="center" border="1"
!width="250px" style="background:black;"|<font color="white">Image</font>
!width="350px" style="background:black;"|<font color="white">Attack Name</font>
!width="350px" style="background:black;"|<font color="white">Description</font>
|-style="background:white;"
|<center>[[File:Dark Aura KH.gif]]</center>
|<center>Dark Aura (ダークオーラ Dāku Ōra)</center>
|Riku warps around, striking the target repeatedly. He then plunges his weapon into the ground, causing several pillars of flames to erupt around him.
|}
Alternatively, we can format the table like this:
{|cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5" align="center" border="1"
!width="250px" style="background:black;"|<font color="white">Attack</font>
!width="350px" style="background:black;"|<font color="white">Description</font>
|-style="background:white;"
|<center>[[File:Dark Aura KH.gif]]<br>Dark Aura (ダークオーラ Dāku Ōra)</center>
|Riku warps around, striking the target repeatedly. He then plunges his weapon into the ground, causing several pillars of flames to erupt around him.
|}
Here's an example in which there is no official attack name (note that there is NO FAKE NAME USAGE; pretend Dark Aura's name was unknown)
{|cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5" align="center" border="1"
!width="250px" style="background:black;"|<font color="white">Image</font>
!width="350px" style="background:black;"|<font color="white">Attack Name</font>
!width="350px" style="background:black;"|<font color="white">Description</font>
|-style="background:white;"
|<center>[[File:Dark Aura KH.gif]]</center>
|<center>N/A</center>
|Riku warps around, striking the target repeatedly. He then plunges his weapon into the ground, causing several pillars of flames to erupt around him.
|}
Again, just a suggestion that can be tinkered with and improved upon in the future if necessary. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 02:14, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
::Okay, I can see the potential there, if we can get demonstrative gifs. Might not be as good for long-duration attacks, like the V-V's Shadow Dive, though.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 03:28, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
:::I don't think you necessarily need the full attack, as much as a portion of its main form and then its finisher (using Dark Aura as an example, a few warps and then the flames). - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 04:40, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
::::Still, there are some games (KH3D for example) which make it hard to get images from. {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 06:45, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
:::::Well, maybe we could develop something like [http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140608194520/finalfantasy/images/2/20/Image_Placeholder.png this] for when an attack does not have an image to illustrate it. - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 06:55, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
{{KrytenKoro|Ideally, the boss attack sections should have images. Realistically, that's not going to be even nearing completion for a few years.

TFM, I don't understand what you mean by "tags". Assume that Sephiroth's "Heartless Angel" technique did not have an official name (that we had access to). How would you suggest we cover information like "make sure to have Elixirs stocked in the event that Sephiroth casts 'Heartless Angel' on Sora"?

Neumannz, italics are better than nothing, but I'm not sure they are better than quotation marks, as I believe the shifts in formatting are going to look very jarring. This isn't a significant complaint, though.}}
Maybe you're right, but I just feel that quotation marks make it feel more like making up a name, while italics make it feel more like calling it by its description. That's just my impression of it.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 14:55, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
@@ Line 59: / Line 59: @@
 Neumannz, italics are better than nothing, but I'm not sure they are better than quotation marks, as I believe the shifts in formatting are going to look very jarring. This isn't a significant complaint, though.}}
 Maybe you're right, but I just feel that quotation marks make it feel more like making up a name, while italics make it feel more like calling it by its description. That's just my impression of it.  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 14:55, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
-:Fair enough.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 18:40, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
-::Thoughts on the table, Kryten? You kinda ignored it entirely :P - {{User:EternalNothingnessXIII/Sig}} 18:41, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
-:::While the ideal article would absolutely have images, I don't think it's going to be possible to use images to the exclusion of names, and definitely not to the exclusion of descriptions unless we can somehow get the camera to focus on the boss instead of the protagonist. I would prefer the table have the images in a separate column from the names, if only because it will literally be ages before we have comprehensive image coverage -- although it should also be said that having the images above the technique name distracts the eyes from the technique name. Given the busy-ness of the images, and the lack of comprehensivity, I would actually place them in the rightmost column, so we don't have a gaping abyss sucking at the eye marrow and tunneling inbetweeners to the regulation of patriotism...
-:::Huh? Oh. The table would also benefit from listing the [[KHWiki:Project Shout]]-style telegraphs, and should absolutely list a method for avoiding or countering the technique, but that doesn't need to be a distinct cell from the description itself.{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 22:20, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
-{{TheFifteenthMember|time={{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 16:57, 23 May 2015 (UTC)|persuade=By tags, I mean a made-up description that alludes to an attack (which basically. To answer your question, the page should list under the Attacks section:
-*Sephiroth ascends to the air and calls out "Descend...Heartless...Angel..." Then, (finish description)
-And in the Strategy section, the tip could be "make sure to have Elixirs stocked in the event that Sephiroth uses his "Descend...Heartless...Angel" attack." The point is, we list all the attacks and then in the Strategy section, we call the attack by its description. The reader can still recognise what attack we're talking about, but it's less like we're making up a formal name because we're just picking out an original or outstanding part of the attack that it can be remembered by. And for those that apply, it could be a telegram like you said.
-The table could definitely work, but for now, I think all gifs should go in a gallery section because we don't have enough of them. I'd rather not add an extra column when it'll be hardly filled in. Also, does the Ultimania list every single enemy attack name in the game? If they don't we need to make sure we only reserve "N/A" for those and use something else for names we just haven't checked yet (e.g. a blank space or a section stub template). }}
-{{TheSilentHero|time=17:03, 23 May 2015 (UTC)|robin=But if you call it "Descend...Heartless...Angel attack", then you're still giving it an unofficial name, just a long and weird sounding name.
-I agree about the gifs in a gallery. If we are going to have a table, we could list the status effects the moves inflict and if it can be blocked.}}
-Yes, but you're only using the names in the strategy section as opposed to the Attacks list. Though on second thoughts, the italics might work okay. {{User:TheFifteenthMember/Sig1}} 17:12, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
-{{ENX|time=17:19, 23 May 2015 (UTC)|text=I'm just going to say it now: regardless of what happens here, I am <big><big>100% AGAINST USING UNOFFICIAL NAMES IN ANY WAY!</big></big>}}
-{{TheSilentHero|time=17:21, 23 May 2015 (UTC)|shulk=How would you refer to a specific attack (without official name) in the strategy section?}}
-:As far as I know, all attacks/techniques/whatever ever used in the series (except perhaps the BBSFM-exclusive enemies; I think Shard has the official guide for that, maybe ask him about it?) have official names listed in their respective Ultimania; so it's just a matter of finding them. [http://wikiwiki.jp/kh_series/?%B5%BB%A1%A6%CB%E2%CB%A1 This site has a bunch of them in Japanese (although I can barely navigate it...)], and I can clarify any names from KH2/KH2FM, ReCoM and DDD personally (there's always a description alongside a named technique). [[User:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#002395 ;">Ultima Spark</span>]] ''[[User talk:Ultima Spark|<span style="color:#007FFF ;">(talk)</span>]]'' [[File:Lofty Fantasy KH3D.png|17px]] 18:04, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
-::I have the KH3D Ultimania too, but it doesn't list all techniques, like the [[Spellican]]'s broom-summoning attack, for example. (This may be because it is not an attack, but more like a special technique.) {{User:TheSilentHero/Sig}} 18:11, 23 May 2015 (UTC)