Editing Forum:"Heartless Manufactory" - One-Time-Only Guests

{{Forumheader|The World that Never was}}

<!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with either your talk page template or four tildes ~~~~ -->
{{Uxie|time=01:50, 18 April 2011 (EDT)|text=Some of the victoms who get a warning are IPs who never return, while their victom who also got a warning is a regular editor who applies for the Heartless Manufactory. Many will never get cured, no matter how much they try to apply for the HM, because the other person never returns. Is this unfair?

I, for example, suffered an IP bully yesterday, and signed up for the HM, but my apply was deleted, plus that person will never return, as assumed. I'm willing to get rid of this warning, but with these new rules, and my rival being a one-time-only guest, it's impossible. Is there another way to get rid of a warning for the active person without the need of the guest/inactive person? This is what this talk is about.}}
Hmm, maybe we should consider a "Solo" option in cases like this, when one of the offenders is unlikely to return or comply (that one would have to get the block).  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 02:04, 18 April 2011 (EDT)

:It's a good idea, but Kryten needs to see this, as well. Kryten proposed this, and I think it's a good idea, but it's unfair for those who's rival will not be returning, y'know. [[User:UxieLover1994|<font color="gold">Uxie</font>]]<small>[[User talk:UxieLover1994|<font color="gray">Lover</font>]]</small>[http://en.spyro.shoutwiki.com/wiki/User:UxieLover1994 <font color="red">1994</font>] 02:08, 18 April 2011 (EDT)
::I believe that Roxas wanted to go through with a ticket, too.
::In this situation, I believe the best thing to do would be to modify the PAwarning template - offenders have one week to apply at the Heartless Manufactory, after which they are permanently blocked until they finish their docket. So, Oavatos and the IP would be blocked until they ask to do their docket. Roxas and Uxie can do their dockets together.
::The question then is what to do if Oavatos and the IP come back and want to do their dockets. Should they work with each other, or should they do dockets with Roxas and Uxie?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 02:20, 18 April 2011 (EDT)

{{Uxie|time=02:26, 18 April 2011 (EDT)|luna=Work with Roxas! Great idea, Kryten! I would be happy to do it, y'know. Gracias, amigo! Still, there is a chance this can happen again, but this idea is good.}}

While it's not a bad idea right now, the problem is that we can't always wait for there to be two unpaired offenders, and mostly likely the offenders that care won't want to wait, especially since the longer a warning is left alone, the less likely people are to remember to handle it.

Additionally, the point of having the assignments being in pairs is so that the offenders are forced to work together, which has far less meaning if the two weren't attacking each other.

And finally, there's the issue of attacks that aren't one-against-one from the beginning. If one editor attacks another, but the recipient doesn't retaliate, do we still have them doing a docket together? The recipient won't even warrant a WarningPA, right?  --{{User:Neumannz/SigTemplate}} 02:32, 18 April 2011 (EDT)
:Right, but they generally do occur in pairs.....hmm.
:Obviously, having the two offenders work together is by far preferable. In the absence of consent from both parties, it seems that we should allow single-party dockets.
:But again, what of the missing offender? If he comes back, do we have him do a single ticket? Wouldn't that allow people to just work on their own, instead of getting the lesson? Do we want to inflict a harsher punishment for deciding not to work with your assigned partner?{{User:KrytenKoro/Sig}} 04:20, 18 April 2011 (EDT)

{{Uxie|time=08:39, 18 April 2011 (EDT)|zoe=Just a few words that might be helpful:

:Two people fight, and both get a warning. One agrees to sign up for the HP, but the other refuses. An admin should explain why they must work at the HP, so that the other person will have no choice to avoid harsher punishment. Should he/she still refuse to do the work, they should be put on a "Black List", which is a list of users (or regular IPs) who refuses to take part with the HP or does minor vandalisom. 

:Black List Users must be watched at all times, in case they do more bad things. There will be ways to get off the black list, such as doing helpful stuff around the wiki and have a whole week without a problem. Their names should be in color, depending on their seriousness: Yellow for one strike, Orange for two strikes, Red for three, Brown for four, and will be blocked if it reaches five. They can be demoted in color (eg: from Orange to Yellow) after doing the positive things. However, if a major fight or vandal hits the wiki, the person is automatically under the "Brown" status.

Do you think this is a good idea? We have a simiar list in the Spyro Wiki, but this is kinder than the other one (I gave a Five-Strke List; we have a Three-Strike List).}}
{{KrytenKoro|No, I don't think that is a good idea. The whole idea behind the Manufactory is that it allows you to start over with a clean slate, and transforms a punitive system (blocks, bans) into a productive one.}}

{{AlVan|time16:19, 18 April 2011 (EDT)|text=We've only had one case so far. If your talking about me I can't stay on the wiki all night long and I have to go to school. I also don't know anything about re:coded. I finished that game by guessing. I don't even own 358/2 days but plan on buying it soon.}}
{{Asif|sho=EDIT CONFLICT:Hmm...

I've put some thought into it, and here's my idea: how about making a docket for people who are alone, where they get a task and must perform it on their own.  This could be used if someone insults another person and the other one doesn't retaliate, meaning only one person gets a warning.  They would have to sign up and perform a task alone that would be challenging to do alone, which would teach them about working together by showing what happens when people ''don't'' work together.

If there's a situation where two people get warnings but only one wants to participate, the one who doesn't want to partake in the Heartless Manufactory round should be temporarily removed of an important privelage: the ability to post in the Twilight Town Library, usage of the IRC channel, or some punishment that fits the crime.  The other person should be allowed to start a project alone, but only has to do half the work.  That way if the other person decides to come back, s/he still has work to do.  Also, if they still don't participate after that, you can block him/her temporarily or keep removing privelages until s/he decides to help, after which the warning will be removed and all privelages will be restored.

If they ''never'' decide to participate... I would let admins decide that.

What do you think?  Is it unreasonable?}}
{{LA|Vtext=This may be a little off-topic, and I'm sure this has been pointed out already, but what if a fight is one-sided, in which there is really only one person who is offending? In other words, does the Heartless Manufactory cover harassment? Say Herpson calls Derpington a name but Derpington stays civil and doesn't retort - do both Herpson and Derpington get Warnings? I feel that's a bit unfair to Derpington; he shouldn't have to partake in the Manufactory seeing as he kept civil during the situation, thus he has no need to "productively redeem" himself.}}

{{Uxie|time=00:58, 19 April 2011 (EDT)|text=Yeah, I guess the Black List is a bit too harsh in this wiki. I agree with AsIf, but people who don't want to participate and make things even worse (eg: vandalising major pages, erasing userpages and talkpages) should get a very harsh punishment.}}

{{The Inexistent|grue='''Can someone please set this up?  I now have a solo warning that I need to take care of, and since Roxas is now inactive, I could do it with Uxie, if needed.'''}}
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{Forumheader|The Realm of Sleep|The World that Never was}}
+{{Forumheader|The World that Never was}}
 <!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with either your talk page template or four tildes ~~~~ -->
@@ Line 47: / Line 47: @@
 {{The Inexistent|grue='''Can someone please set this up?  I now have a solo warning that I need to take care of, and since Roxas is now inactive, I could do it with Uxie, if needed.'''}}
-===Head's Up===
-{{Uxie|time=04:51, 2 May 2011 (EDT)|zoe=Roxas has retired. I've never seen him so upset, before. It's terrible that someone would bully him like that, y'know.
-The one who attacked me{{Uxie-TT|*|whom I still assume to be Escyos, after seeing his very-gross wiki}} just attacked me again, but with another IP address. I'm now without a partner, and since Roxas has left, Oavatos refuses to help, and Escyos's IP addresses have been blocked, now what will happen?}}
-{{LA|Vtext=....so was my question was just like head-slappingly obvious, a Lego-what-the-heck-we've-been-over-this-get-the-stick-out-of-your-ass simple question? 'cause I'm sort of curious as to what happens to Derpington, and all.}}
-{{KrytenKoro|Who all has warnings and still wants to do them?
-We'll try to get dockets set up this weekend.}}